Why US and Canada (cities) suck.

[jc100]

Kind of matters how old you are too I guess. My priorities for happiness were different when I was 20ish to what they are now. Big metropolises are a lot of fun when you’re young and where you live is just where you lay your head.

Now I’m an older grumpy **** I just want people to **** off out of my hair and leave me alone to do what I want which might mean wandering around my kingdom in speedos with a rum and coke in my hand.

 

[Mad Mike]

Not all cities are created equal

15min drive from the beach in this image to the start of the hinterland in the background with some of the best riding roads in the country.

View attachment 64313


Forgot to mention. 300+ days of sunshine each year and winter daytime Temps of 20-24 summer 26-

My favourite city.

Acgazillion miles of roads carved into the mountains and canyons. City temps 15-20 in the winter, 20-30 summer. Cooler at the sea and in the mountains.

I could be at the beach in my shorts in December, then drive 25 minutes into the mountains to make snowmen.

As for European cities… nice to visit, can’t say I’ve been to any I’d care to live in. My faves are LA, Toronto, New Orleans.

 

[bigpoppa]

Can't compare TO to any of them IMO. Any city from the 'old country' was created under different conditions.

Also, let's not pretend they don't have issues..just different issues then TO.

for sure, I'd happily trade their problems for mine though

 

[PacoT]

Also, let's not pretend they don't have issues..just different issues then TO.

I agree. I think it's different to experience a city as a tourist because you don't have to deal with its everyday problems.

I've read the unemployment rate in Spain is really high compared to other countries.

Also, while I mentioned some highlights of Mexico City, I gtfo because I was fed up with violence, impunity, political incompetence, housing problems, among others. Just to end up in another place with less violence but far greater housing problems.

 

[thwak]

Little pink houses for you and me

 

[ReSTored]

Certainly NA cities do not have the history of some cities in the UK, Europe and other places. Montreal and Quebec city have historic districts that are limited in size, but nice. Certain parts of vancouver are beautiful.

If you looking for natural beauty I continue marvel on drives and rides through the countryside in both Canada and the US at spectacular beauty, in particular in AB and BC and the US southwest in general.

 

[Chris-CJ]

I agree. I think it's different to experience a city as a tourist because you don't have to deal with its everyday problems.

I've read the unemployment rate in Spain is really high compared to other countries.

Also, while I mentioned some highlights of Mexico City, I gtfo because I was fed up with violence, impunity, political incompetence, housing problems, among others. Just to end up in another place with less violence but far greater housing problems.

Heard that Mexico city is experiencing a water shortage and for a couple of hours a day an open faucet dispenses nothing.

 

[Jampy00]

for sure, I'd happily trade their problems for mine though

Living in an area and vacationing there are two different things.
Beauty is everywhere, sometimes you just need to look around for it.

 

[Priller]

I'm with you, but a lot depends on priorities. If you want walkability, sociability, and pleasant public spaces, Europe is definitely better. If you want space, privacy, and more pleasant private spaces (well, bigger, anyway), North America is better. I know what I prefer, but I'm a certified Europhile and often find US culture vulgar and excessive. Others find Euro culture snobbish and restrictive, so YMMV etc.

To me, a big thing we're missing here is the so-called middle density, 4-7 story apartments spread over bigger areas. We tend to do the extremes in North America, either low-density single-family subdivisions or high-density 30+ story condos. Neither promotes the sense of community prevalent in so many European cities.

Our plan is to retire to Italy, though we've discussed moving there or the UK earlier to work when obligations around children and aging parents no longer tie us to Canada. We know a few folks who have made the leap, and most are happy, though one couple came back after struggling socially with the language barrier in Italy. Without true language fluency, it's really hard to make true friends, and many European cultures focus heavily on the people you grew up with and family, making it hard to forge meaningful friendships as an immigrant except with other immigrants/ex-pats. The wife in that couple described it as always feeling like a child in social situations, as understanding the fast flow of conversation was extremely difficult, and things like jokes often needed explaining due to some missing piece of cultural knowledge.

(As for beautiful women, they're everywhere, but climate and culture interact to make them more or less visible...)

 

[Lightcycle]

I think it's different to experience a city as a tourist because you don't have to deal with its everyday problems.

^ This.

We lived in Colombia for 6 months. Fell in love with the place the second we entered, but after a while, hanging out with long-term ex-pats and locals, we saw how they really lived, instead of just what's shown to the tourists.

We saw how to achieve the same level of security as the western world, they had to pay extra for guards, guns and gates.
We saw how to achieve the same level of sanitation as the western world, they had to pay for and maintain a separate septic and waste disposal system.
We saw how in order to get the same bureaucratic efficiency as the western world, they had to pay extra bribes to all the government workers they interacted with.

All in, they paid even money, if not more, than someone living in North America to make up for all these deficiencies.

People who have only lived in one place often have a "grass is greener" mentality.

People who have lived in many different places know that the grass is actually green *AND* brown everywhere, just in different patches.

 

[Priller]

^ This.

We lived in Colombia for 6 months. Fell in love with the place the second we entered, but after a while, hanging out with long-term ex-pats and locals, we saw how they really lived, instead of just what's shown to the tourists.

We saw how to achieve the same level of security as the western world, they had to pay extra for guards, guns and gates.
We saw how to achieve the same level of sanitation as the western world, they had to pay for and maintain a separate septic and waste disposal system.
We saw how in order to get the same bureaucratic efficiency as the western world, they had to pay extra bribes to all the government workers they interacted with.

All in, they paid even money, if not more, than someone living in North America to make up for all these deficiencies.

People who have only lived in one place often have a "grass is greener" mentality.

People who have lived in many different places know that the grass is actually green *AND* brown everywhere, just in different patches.

I'd agree with this except with a big, "Yes, but..."

The 'but' is that sometimes the green bits of grass better match what's important to you, and the brown bits matter less. I've lived and/or worked in many places across the US and Canada, and found pros and cons with each. We lived on an acreage outside Vancouver, and I've lived in a tiny downtown condo in Toronto. I've worked in a variety of places in the US, typically for months up to a year, and certainly for long enough that the tourist rush is long worn off. While there's a lot of truth to the saying, "No matter where you go, there you are," in terms of looking for a place as a source of happiness and a solution to life's problems, there's also preferences that some places suit better than others.

In our case, we moved from the rural Lower Mainland to old Hamilton, 15 minutes away from steel mills, and most people think we're nuts. But for us, we couldn't be happier because we love our neighbourhood (very front porch rather than backyard, if that makes sense) and there's lots of cool stuff we can walk to. Pertinent to this forum, the only thing I miss, literally, is the motorcycling roads, and that includes weather. Way better tracks here, though. The Lower Mainland is a track riding wasteland.

It's far from perfect, but the flaws are far outweighed by the pros for what we're looking for in a place to live. Now I just need to figure out how to stop needing to travel into Toronto so often...

 

[bigpoppa]

^ This.

People who have only lived in one place often have a "grass is greener" mentality.

People who have lived in many different places know that the grass is actually green *AND* brown everywhere, just in different patches.

You have to pick your poison in life, being aware that most of the time you just end up swapping one set of problems for another, is important and helpful.

Knowing which problems you can live with, and which you cant is key as well.

but after a while, hanging out with long-term ex-pats and locals, we saw how they really lived, instead of just what's shown to the tourists.

I have heard from current expats(primarily in latin america) and locals alike, that this is one of the things to avoid at all costs.

Otherwise your social circle ends up being a stagnant cesspool of whining and complaining, full of bitter people,
like political threads on GTAM in the winter, not good for your psyche. Best avoided/blocked as necessary.

We saw how to achieve the same level of security as the western world, they had to pay extra for guards, guns and gates.
We saw how to achieve the same level of sanitation as the western world, they had to pay for and maintain a separate septic and waste disposal system.
We saw how in order to get the same bureaucratic efficiency as the western world, they had to pay extra bribes to all the government workers they interacted with.

Imo this often a problem westerners have, they always end up trying to change their environments instead of "when in rome-ing" trying to live like the locals. If you want things to be exactly the same as they are back home, why leave?
Going somewhere means, living like a local and going with the flow.

 

[Evoex]

Imo this often a problem westerners have, they always end up trying to change their environments instead of "when in rome-ing" trying to live like the locals. If you want things to be exactly the same as they are back home, why leave?
Going somewhere means, living like a local and going with the flow.

Because taking real wealth to certain countries can result in your family getting ambushed and ransomed or just left with their throats slit. Need to remember where you`re moving to and just what kind of squalor the average person in your area might be living in.

Because after 40 years of washing your hands with clean water and soap aplenty when you felt like it is not the same as gathering water from the well 3km down the hill.

Because getting that permit to have your house built in less than a year means greasing every cog in the wheel all the way up the food chain. Then paying yearly to have them not find 50 deficiencies which would require yet more greasing.

I spent 20 years of my life not living in Canada (so half). There's a lot to shake your head at, a lot to be disappointed about and a lot to hate. Grass is not always greener.

 

[Mad Mike]

Imo this often a problem westerners have, they always end up trying to change their environments instead of "when in rome-ing" trying to live like the locals. If you want things to be exactly the same as they are back home, why leave?
Going somewhere means, living like a local and going with the flow.

It’s not that easy. Locals know how to identify westerners, do as much blending as you want - the bad guys know you keep money in the ATM. And the better guys expect you to have money when it comes time for facilitation fees to be paid.

Most Canadians that leave, including me, return to the green, green grass of home.

 

[bigpoppa]

Because taking real wealth to certain countries can result in your family getting ambushed and ransomed or just left with their throats slit. Need to remember where you`re moving to and just what kind of squalor the average person in your area might be living in.

Because after 40 years of washing your hands with clean water and soap aplenty when you felt like it is not the same as gathering water from the well 3km down the hill.

Because getting that permit to have your house built in less than a year means greasing every cog in the wheel all the way up the food chain. Then paying yearly to have them not find 50 deficiencies which would require yet more greasing.

I spent 20 years of my life not living in Canada (so half). There's a lot to shake your head at, a lot to be disappointed about and a lot to hate. Grass is not always greener.

agreed, when I said live like a local, I meant like a normal, middle class person in a decent neighborhood, (not in a warzone)

 

[Evoex]

agreed, when I said live like a local, I meant like a normal, middle class person in a decent neighborhood, (not in a warzone)

even toronto land barons would probably struggle in many large european cities.

3 bedroom house in etobicoke gets you a 4-room apartment in Paris. LOL

 

[Mad Mike]

How about the worst cities you have lived?

I’ll start, Hyderabad, 3 mos in 2004. Very very low on sanitation, dogs everywhere, near zero to do, and no decent restaraunts outside western hotels.

 

[Mad Mike]

even toronto land barons would probably struggle in many large european cities.

3 bedroom house in etobicoke gets you a 4-room apartment in Paris. LOL

My 1br 3rd floor walk up in central London was $10k/mo in 2000. Phone calls were controlled by the landlord, every call connected cost 1GBP plus 15p a minute.

 

[ToSlow]

My 1br 3rd floor walk up in central London was $10k/mo in 2000. Phone calls were controlled by the landlord, every call connected cost 1GBP plus 15p a minute.

Dude is there anything you haven't done or owned or do? You gotta be a 100yrs old

 

[Lightcycle]

Imo this often a problem westerners have, they always end up trying to change their environments instead of "when in rome-ing" trying to live like the locals. If you want things to be exactly the same as they are back home, why leave?
Going somewhere means, living like a local and going with the flow.

Yeah... I'm going to trust the people actually making a real go at living in these areas, as opposed to listening to someone visit a place for a couple of weeks and then comes back to tell everyone how North America sucks and how their vacation spot is so much better than back home in every single way.