Why ebikes need insurance and basic lisencing

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Was coming home from work southbound on Snake Rd, and some pigeon was climbing out of the valley after the tight twisties at a snail's pace, hugging the center line. Buddy, you don't need to apex the corner when you're doing 10 kmh. Had to wait till the cemetery to get past him. So wanted to punt him into the ditch.
 
GreyGhost said:
That's against Toronto By-law (assuming he was under power and not pedalling the big turd).
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No doubt about it. Think it might have been this one:
xtron_black.jpg

...but no pedals could be seen(removed)....and can you even reach the pedals comfortably sitting on the front seat?
 
Riceburner said:
No doubt about it. Think it might have been this one:
xtron_black.jpg

...but no pedals could be seen(removed)....and can you even reach the pedals comfortably sitting on the front seat?
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Haha, the 3" cranks. The mark of the beast.

If the rider took the pedals off, they are in for a world of hurt if a cop decides to chat. No pedals=not an ebike, they are riding an unplated, uninsured motorcycle without a proper helmet or license endorsement.
 
I'd love an e-bike that could do about 50-60kph as my commute is 40km and I'm way too out of shape to actually bike it. Will be looking into installing an e-bike kit onto my regular bike so see if it's something that can be done over the winter as it'd be a great way to commute from Square One to Yonge/Sheppard on the side roads instead of the 401.

Unfortunately these scooters have a bad rap and talking to an officer friend of mine she said that there's way too many of them that are guys who lost their license for DUI and they end up stopping them on the e-bikes as well due to issues and collisions all over the place.
 
In my area, they are a menace, officer friends call them "Prohib Bikes" (prohibited drivers).

For every 20 Ebike riders I see on the road, 1 looks to be an upstanding citizen who is probably riding one for the reasons listed here (convenient commute, quick errands, etc); while the other 19 of them look like they would shank their own mother for $5.

I've seen them run right through red lights, nearly hit other cars, most are aggressive and swear / gesture at the cars they almost hit. It is clear that many of them do not know the 'rules of the road'.

The damage these things cause when striking another vehicle (400 lbs travelling 30kph) is a kin to a hot knife through butter on your average family sedan when it t-bones you at the intersection. That alone should require further legislation beyond a bicycle.
 
Riceburner said:
Was running along side one on Richmond today. It was almost as big as a maxi scooter, definitely bigger than a Vespa and marginally smaller than my 600. He got ahead when traffic got thick....by running in the bicycle lane.
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They can legally use the bike lanes. It was a screw up when they couldn't because they, in effect, made a second bike lane infuriating drivers.
 
nobbie48 said:
They can legally use the bike lanes. It was a screw up when they couldn't because they, in effect, made a second bike lane infuriating drivers.
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Good to know. It looks like they are just prohibited from separated bike lanes and trails. Toronto made a second class of bikes they call pedelecs which are what ebikes should have been. These are allowed everywhere.
 
GreyGhost said:
Good to know. It looks like they are just prohibited from separated bike lanes and trails. Toronto made a second class of bikes they call pedelecs which are what ebikes should have been. These are allowed everywhere.
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Some e-bike regulations are federal ie DUI, some provincial (HTA), and some municipal bylaws. At the moment there's no money in it so no one wants the responsibility. Make them a cash cow and everyone wants control.
 
mxs said:
Is this the law in Ontario which is currently governing these Low Speed Vehicles?

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/low-speed-vehicles.shtml
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Ebikes are supposed to be one step below LSV. The way it has developed, many (probably the vast majority actually) should be classed as LSV's not ebikes. They will evaporate overnight if this ever happens.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-faq.shtml

EDIT:
Wait a minute, LSV is new. Those are golf cart looking things. I meant LSM.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section1-3-0.shtml
 
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GreyGhost said:
Ebikes are supposed to be one step below LSV. The way it has developed, many (probably the vast majority actually) should be classed as LSV's not ebikes. They will evaporate overnight if this ever happens.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-faq.shtml

EDIT:
Wait a minute, LSV is new. Those are golf cart looking things. I meant LSM.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section1-3-0.shtml
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OK, but fundamentally, LSV or LSM .. not whole lot of difference, right? Still requires registration, plate and insurance, correct? (I believe they expanded LSV to anything, not just motorcycles; I got caught by the acronyms too, arguing with someone ...)

Ebikes don't need any of that, hence it attracts mopeds which are really more a motorcycle than a bicycle. Do I have that right now?
 
GreyGhost said:
Ebikes are supposed to be one step below LSV. The way it has developed, many (probably the vast majority actually) should be classed as LSV's not ebikes. They will evaporate overnight if this ever happens.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-faq.shtml

EDIT:
Wait a minute, LSV is new. Those are golf cart looking things. I meant LSM.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section1-3-0.shtml
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And then there's also the "mopeds" class, requiring an M type license .... so the main difference being that Moped is allowed up to 50km/k and weight of 55kgs (not sure why) ... the government seems to be doing very complicated, as usually.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section1-4-0.shtml
 
mxs said:
OK, but fundamentally, LSV or LSM .. not whole lot of difference, right? Still requires registration, plate and insurance, correct? (I believe they expanded LSV to anything, not just motorcycles; I got caught by the acronyms too, arguing with someone ...)

Ebikes don't need any of that, hence it attracts mopeds which are really more a motorcycle than a bicycle. Do I have that right now?
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I think the intent of ebikes was what Toronto calls Pedelecs. They are bicycle looking things with a motor that assists while you are pedaling. If you stop pedaling, the electric motor stops working. This helps you commute at higher speed without incredible effort on your part. They have become the huge scooter monstrosity that are physically impossible to pedal.
 
mxs said:
And then there's also the "mopeds" class, requiring an M type license .... so the main difference being that Moped is allowed up to 50km/k and weight of 55kgs (not sure why) ... the government seems to be doing very complicated, as usually.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section1-4-0.shtml
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Moped can be gas. I think those laws are left over from the 80's when they killed them. Mopeds used to be no (or incredibly cheap?) insurance, no license etc, then they brought it that law and essentially made costs similar to motorbikes. They quickly disappeared.
 
Pedelecs, eh? Never heard of that, nor do I believe that any modern electric bicycle's motor will not propel you if you stop pedaling .... terrible laws if you ask me with lost touch with current reality and technology. All they have on their minds are speed limits and that speed kills.
 
GreyGhost said:
Moped can be gas. I think those laws are left over from the 80's when they killed them. Mopeds used to be no (or incredibly cheap?) insurance, no license etc, then they brought it that law and essentially made costs similar to motorbikes. They quickly disappeared.
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Right, but if you open the moped link, you will notice that they have updated it, to reflect electric propulsion obviously .... "Attached motor driven by electricity or having a piston displacement of no more than 50 cubic centimetres" so it's not like it was last time touched up long time ago .... it seems to be a pretty good jungle of laws.
 
mxs said:
Pedelecs, eh? Never heard of that, nor do I believe that any modern electric bicycle's motor will not propel you if you stop pedaling .... terrible laws if you ask me with lost touch with current reality and technology. All they have on their minds are speed limits and that speed kills.
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I have a pedelec type electric bike and it only assists when pedaling you can set the assist level but it only powers when pedaled.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
crankcall said:
I could see having one to zip to CTC , or the grocery for a couple things, but the dumdums riding them render it impossible for me to seriously consider. I'd have to wear one of those cones of shame like my dog so I didnt try to lick my own balls, I assume thats how these tools roll.
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Holy crap! How big are your balls?

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