The fleet needs an oil change. I've seen T4 and T6(??). Which one are most using?
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Which Rotella
- Thread starter timtune
- Start date
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I use T4 for the dinosaurs, and T6 for anything that specifies synthetic (my little Chev 1.4l needs synth for the turbo).
I've used T4 in every car, truck, motorcycle, and small engine since 1980 - I have never experienced a failure due to lubrication. I religiously change oil at 6000km or at least once a year. The furthest I've driven a gas engine is was a '90 Audi 2l, it went 470,000kin the car then got transplanted into a sandrail buggy, where it continued taking a pounding.
Rotella T4 15W40 is rated JASO MA/MA2.
The best argument I have heard so far... the ONLY argument I have heard so far, to recommend Rotella oil is Mike's:
Do you see how stupid that argument is... what you're saying is the product is not detrimental (it is), so accepting the bare minimum performance is a GOOD thing?
There are unarguably better products available, that are not cost prohibitive... so why not the the CORRECT product.
Is it because you think you are smarter than the people that designed your motor? You aren't.
Is it because you think oil manufacturers are trying to rip you off? Your tinfoil hat is too tight.
Is it because you think oil designed for slow revving diesel engine is good for your high revving gas motor? You're wrong
I personally don't give a damn what you put in your crankcase, I'm never going to buy a bike off any of you, but if you want a recommendation from someone that knows more about motor oil than most: use the spec oil the manufacturer recommends. It's BEST. (The spec is the important part, it doesn't matter what trade name is on the bottle)
So using THAT logic: I have been a heavy smoker for 50 years and I haven't died yet, so smoking 2 packs a day is a good choice.
Do you see how stupid that argument is... what you're saying is the product is not detrimental (it is), so accepting the bare minimum performance is a GOOD thing?
There are unarguably better products available, that are not cost prohibitive... so why not the the CORRECT product.
Is it because you think you are smarter than the people that designed your motor? You aren't.
Is it because you think oil manufacturers are trying to rip you off? Your tinfoil hat is too tight.
Is it because you think oil designed for slow revving diesel engine is good for your high revving gas motor? You're wrong
I personally don't give a damn what you put in your crankcase, I'm never going to buy a bike off any of you, but if you want a recommendation from someone that knows more about motor oil than most: use the spec oil the manufacturer recommends. It's BEST. (The spec is the important part, it doesn't matter what trade name is on the bottle)
And YOU don't know what that means.
All "motorcycle" oil is MA or MA2, but not all MA/MA2 oil is "motorcycle" oil.
Of the hundreds of tests and specifications that go into making a spec oil; MA/MA2 is ONE.
What about the other hundreds of tests and specs.
Motorcycle oil has more anti foam (which is important to maintain oil pressure at high revs), Rotella has virtually NONE.
... but here's the kicker: We used to use Rotella as break in oil on the dyno (cuz it's the cheapest oil available). You run the motor up, breakin the rings, drain the crankcase, fill it with the oil we're going to use, and have at 'er.
MOST (I say most, I can't say I checked EVERY time) but in most cases the motor picked up a couple of percent of power... some more, some less, but MORE.
Which means Rotella is costing you HP and gas mileage... you get LOWER performance in a high revving gas motor.
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I think at this point on the clock ( both the bike's and mine ) the risk is minimal. Agreed if Mike had never had a problem, well maybe that's not a great argument. On the other hand if many people use it and never have a problem then I'm inclined to just roll the dice.
Are you talking about dynoing motorcycle motors, or automotive motors? I know you've done both. The lack of friction modifiers in Rotella (or any other JASO-MA oil) could account for that
If you were to contact Shell Oil, and ask them if THEY recommend you run Rotella in your motorcycle, they will flatly tell you NO.
Of course the cynic in me says they will say no, because they DO recommend some spiffy Shell motorcycle oil, that's 5x the price. And they do.
Of course the cynic in me says they will say no, because they DO recommend some spiffy Shell motorcycle oil, that's 5x the price. And they do.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Personal experience is all I can go by.
I don't think your smoker's analogy is on point -- cause if you told me 2 packs a day was OK because you lasted 50 years, I'd have to share the long list of smokers I know who died before they could get 50 years of smoking under their belts.
I have never claimed to be an oil expert. I have owned plenty of cars, truck, boats, motorcycles and small engine things over the last 50 years. Some diesel, some gas. All I can share is my experience.
My first diesel car was an '80 Rabbit. At the time I was in school and worked for Shell Oil, I could take a pail whenever I wanted so it was a cheap solution for me. A few buddies used it in their MCs and cars so I started doing it too. Like I said earlier, I've never had an oil-related failure. That's over a hundred engines in a wide range of vehicles, all driven like they were stolen, without a single oil-related failure. I even used Rotella T1 at 40:1 in my 2 strokes - they loved it too.
That's good enough for me.
Bring me a hundred friends who have smoked a pack of Player's each day for 50 years with no heart or lung related failures and I might be convinced to smoke again.
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Oh good, another Rotella thread................
I used T4 15w-40 in my ST1100, a relatively low revving engine designed in 1989/90 for dino, for 18 seasons, no issues. On the ST forum, with thousands of ST1100 and ST1300 owners never read of any oil related failure, so good enough for me. Significant number of ST engines were running perfectly with 200,000 - 300,000 km on them. Mine had about 140,000 km when I sold it a few years ago.
My Tracer is running Motul 5100 semi synthetic now and when that runs out I have a case of Amsoil full synthetic. Different engine, higher revving, under more stress than the old ST engine.
If you're using an older bike, designed for dino oil, I'd continue to have no issue with T4
I used T4 15w-40 in my ST1100, a relatively low revving engine designed in 1989/90 for dino, for 18 seasons, no issues. On the ST forum, with thousands of ST1100 and ST1300 owners never read of any oil related failure, so good enough for me. Significant number of ST engines were running perfectly with 200,000 - 300,000 km on them. Mine had about 140,000 km when I sold it a few years ago.
My Tracer is running Motul 5100 semi synthetic now and when that runs out I have a case of Amsoil full synthetic. Different engine, higher revving, under more stress than the old ST engine.
If you're using an older bike, designed for dino oil, I'd continue to have no issue with T4
Car motors.
Rotella is like glue. You get THICK layers of gluey oil where you only need thin layers.
Free pour some Rotella, then compare a free pour of another oil of the same viscosity. The Rotella is "thicker"... doesn't pour as well/freely.
Viscosity does not equal "thickness". Two entirely different measurements, measuring two different qualities. A good Quebec maple syrup, that pours like water, has a higher viscosity rating than axle grease.
With "thicker" oil you get a thicker layer, more oil, sticking to all the rotating parts. A "thinner" oil of the same viscosity gives you the same lubrication, with less mass. Less rotating mass equals more HP (all things being equal).
Another problem with motorcycles and Rotella: is with all this thick oil stuck to everything, it means there's less oil in the oil reservoir. Not an issue with car, IS an issue with bikes, when the oil reservoir keeps changing orientation to gravity.
For the love of god...
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Let me cut through the fog for ya
Any one that says "I've never had a problem" is NOT recommending, they are saying " you could do worse" There was no positive outcome, only neutral outcome. No net gain
I AM recommending, I'm telling you you could do BETTER. I HAVE seen problems with using Rotella in a motorcycle. There's a POSITIVE outcome, there IS a net gain by NOT using Rotella.
Make sense?
Any one that says "I've never had a problem" is NOT recommending, they are saying " you could do worse" There was no positive outcome, only neutral outcome. No net gain
I AM recommending, I'm telling you you could do BETTER. I HAVE seen problems with using Rotella in a motorcycle. There's a POSITIVE outcome, there IS a net gain by NOT using Rotella.
Make sense?
Mike: now explain to the masses that Rotella 30 is like nothing they have seen before, that it is reg30, non detergent oil... and Reg30 is unlike anything else sold in the oil market.
... and if YOU didn't know that, or what I am on about, you shouldn't be talking about motor oil.
Regular30 is VERY special oil... and 100% identical, no matter who's name is on the label.
Reg30 oil is when you take oil out of the ground and first run refine it. No cracking. No additives. No friction modifiers. No detergents. No anti-oxidizers. NOTHING... just oil. Boil the stuff that come out of the ground and put it in a bottle. The only differences in Reg30 oil is what ground it came out of.
Reg30 is colloquially known as " lawn mower" oil. You usually use it in a motor that has no oil filter. With detergent oil, the detergent acts as a emulsifier, and keeps the dirt suspended in the oil, till it gets to the filter. With non-detergent oil, the dirt just drops to the bottom of the case... YOU HOPE.
EVERY oil, except Reg30, has some or all of those additives... which will "pack" a 2T's rings (2T oil only has SOME of those additives).
If you don't have 2T oil, you CAN use it in a 2T... but just like using Rotella in a bike, it won't make the motor blow up, BUT there is better choices, a LOT BETTER choices.
Yamaha manuals (RD350) suggested you put 10W30 in the forks... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD: DON"T. we have the RIGHT stuff now.
... and if YOU didn't know that, or what I am on about, you shouldn't be talking about motor oil.
Regular30 is VERY special oil... and 100% identical, no matter who's name is on the label.
Reg30 oil is when you take oil out of the ground and first run refine it. No cracking. No additives. No friction modifiers. No detergents. No anti-oxidizers. NOTHING... just oil. Boil the stuff that come out of the ground and put it in a bottle. The only differences in Reg30 oil is what ground it came out of.
Reg30 is colloquially known as " lawn mower" oil. You usually use it in a motor that has no oil filter. With detergent oil, the detergent acts as a emulsifier, and keeps the dirt suspended in the oil, till it gets to the filter. With non-detergent oil, the dirt just drops to the bottom of the case... YOU HOPE.
EVERY oil, except Reg30, has some or all of those additives... which will "pack" a 2T's rings (2T oil only has SOME of those additives).
If you don't have 2T oil, you CAN use it in a 2T... but just like using Rotella in a bike, it won't make the motor blow up, BUT there is better choices, a LOT BETTER choices.
Yamaha manuals (RD350) suggested you put 10W30 in the forks... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD: DON"T. we have the RIGHT stuff now.
TK4
Well-known member
Back in the day we used outboard 2T oil (as premix or in the injector) and ATF in the forks - hot stuff then, now not so much.
KLR Junkie
Well-known member
Some people havin a real bad case of the Mondays today...
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