Mad Mike
Well-known member
I haven’t heard or seen dependability being a primary focus for any euro bike brand.
Like a pretty high maintenance girlfriend, they are fun to own and while they are yours you tell everyone how great they are.
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Which of these three bikes would make the best...
- Thread starter Roadghost
- Start date
Like a pretty high maintenance girlfriend, they are fun to own and while they are yours you tell everyone how great they are.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
most of that is just old wives tales or anecdotal
Besides, Id rather try all different flavors out there instead of the same ol vanilla forever
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I want the one parked at home to be low maintenance, fun and dependable.
If it’s variety or a cheap thrill you seek, I’m pretty sure it’s better to rent than own.
Euro vs Japanese is such an over-generalization.
Reliability issues tends to be more model-specific and model-year specific as well. Newer designs that push the envelope in terms of technology will also have more problems crop up compared to models that haven't changed their design in decades. 2020 R1250GS with variable-valve timing having more problems than a KLR650 that is essentially the same bike that it was two decades ago? Not that much of a surprise...
Or maybe it's because something a wise man once said:
Reliability issues tends to be more model-specific and model-year specific as well. Newer designs that push the envelope in terms of technology will also have more problems crop up compared to models that haven't changed their design in decades. 2020 R1250GS with variable-valve timing having more problems than a KLR650 that is essentially the same bike that it was two decades ago? Not that much of a surprise...
Or maybe it's because something a wise man once said:
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think it’s simpler than that. Japanese manufacturers produce in high volumes and sell at lower margins. Dependability is a design priority that makes financial sense — gee-wizardry waits till it’s shaken out.Euro vs Japanese is such an over-generalization.
Reliability issues tends to be more model-specific and model-year specific as well. Newer designs that push the envelope in terms of technology will also have more problems crop up compared to models that haven't changed their design in decades. 2020 R1250GS with variable-valve timing having more problems than a KLR650 that is essentially the same bike that it was two decades ago? Not that much of a surprise...
Or maybe it's because something a wise man once said:
Euro bikes compete on style and innovation, the latter takes time to shake out so their buyers are fewer but more tolerant when it comes to dependability.
Not to beat things to death, but something simple that snakebit a lot of euro bike makers was simple ethanol fuel. Several euros suffered because the didn’t test using US blends that deformed tanks and other fuel system parts. I’m pretty sure Aprila had Ethanol bloating sender units just 2 years ago, 15 years after the world fixed their ethanol fuel problems.
Not just bikes, cars too.
I love my Ducati, but it's a toy for me. It has never caused me any problems or let me down.
That said, if I needed to get to work everyday on my bike....... I'd be riding a nice, soulless, dependable Honda CB.
That said, if I needed to get to work everyday on my bike....... I'd be riding a nice, soulless, dependable Honda CB.
The Japanese manufacturers will be pulled into newer technology sooner than later because of the increasing tighter emissions standards, mainly from Europe.
It's what spelled the demise of the KLR650. The SV650 has consistently been on the cusp of retirement due to Euro 4 and now Euro 5 emissions standards. I think the European manufacturers are doing more to stay ahead of the standards above and beyond bolting larger and heavier catalytic convertors and detuning engines year after year.
It's what spelled the demise of the KLR650. The SV650 has consistently been on the cusp of retirement due to Euro 4 and now Euro 5 emissions standards. I think the European manufacturers are doing more to stay ahead of the standards above and beyond bolting larger and heavier catalytic convertors and detuning engines year after year.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
id still take a ducati over a honda to work
Because motorcycles are toys.
Do you want a fun toy, or a boring toy?
Different if it was a car that I need to get to work reliably every day.
Do you want a fun toy, or a boring toy?
Different if it was a car that I need to get to work reliably every day.
Roadghost
Well-known member
Ahh, I remember those halcyon days of the 1980s when the Japanese bikes were at the apex of all new bike-tech. Anyone remember the Yamaha Genesys with its ground-breaking 5-valve engine? The Honda turbo-6? V-4 Interceptors? And, perish the thought - liquid cooling? It all started in Japan. I'm sure there were a few obscure failures in the last 100 years, but what set Japan apart was they made it reliable.
Like big screen 8000k TVs (which I can't afford) I encourage everyone to go out and buy the latest and greatest big CC hyper-tech bikes. I am then confident when their big expenditures pay for the high development cost and the technology trickles down to much lower priced cheap-sauce bikes that I can afford, like the 390.
I love these guys:
"Oh yeah? Can't afford it eh? Well just for that I'm going to go out and buy the biggest, most expensive...to prove you wrong."
That's kind of my point. Roadghost had a specific use case for this thread and still had many options. Congrats on the new ride.
I can only speak for myself, but I do believe that most of us on here fall into roughly the same category. These are toys for us.
If the bike doesn't start, there is still food on the table at the end of the day. That is a very privileged place to be IMHO.
It's also why I don't really understand the division that is so prevalent here.
If someone wants to buy the most expensive Harley they can and just wants to ride it down to Starbucks to have a coffee with their friends..... fkn go for it.
You want a Panigale V4 and never break the speed limit.... do it.
Is there such a thing as a boring motorcycle?
bigpoppa
Well-known member
im all for buy whatever makes you happy,
but yes, there are boring motorcycles out there imho
I think (or at least hope) that the ribbing here is good-natured.
I make fun of Harleys, but at one point or another, I've made fun of almost every brand out there. It's taking the p!ss out of the fanboys who can only rave about the bike they own. I'd take someone more seriously if they can articulate good and bad things about their motorcycle, gear, smartphone, tv, etc. while still justifying their reasons for owning it.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
A few come to mind. Almost anything from Honda since 1990 without a V S or R in its name. Viragos and Vstars. Kawis that are not Ninjas. Bergmans. There may be more.
I think so.
I think lack of power or throttle response would be boring to a lot of people.
Also, bad brakes so you have to pull on the binders a lot earlier and harder than you normally would.
Suspension that makes the bike feel unplanted while cornering, bottoming out early, excessive fork dive, etc. so you have to ride the bike gingerly.
Low cornering clearance, so you have to tip toe around turns.
So basically, a Harley...
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I have a stable of antique bikes, to me that raw, unrefined, man and beast feel puts a thrill into the ride.I think so.
I think lack of power or throttle response would be boring to a lot of people.
Also, bad brakes so you have to pull on the binders a lot earlier and harder than you normally would.
Suspension that makes the bike feel unplanted while cornering, bottoming out early, excessive fork dive, etc. so you have to ride the bike gingerly.
Low cornering clearance, so you have to tip toe around turns.
So basically, a Harley...
I wonder what it would be like for a competent 30 year old rider to jump on a 40 -50 year old litre bike and go for a spirited ride with me.
challenge accepted!
Roadghost
Well-known member
I think so.
I think lack of power or throttle response would be boring to a lot of people.
Also, bad brakes so you have to pull on the binders a lot earlier and harder than you normally would.
Suspension that makes the bike feel unplanted while cornering, bottoming out early, excessive fork dive, etc. so you have to ride the bike gingerly.
Low cornering clearance, so you have to tip toe around turns.
So basically, a Harley...
I would love to track against you with an XLR against your ADV.
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