Helmet is claimed with the bike, gear is seperate. Or its the way around, don't remember now.
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When Insurance offers too little for a "total loss" settlement
- Thread starter sezme
- Start date
sezme
Member
Update on the story: my adjuster from TD called to say that my claim did little to warm their frosty hearts because they only use the JD Power valuation. The only hope they could offer me is to send my email on to JD Power which might then change the valuation. I will hear back in a couple days. And if that doesn't satisfy me, I can hire my own appraiser who will write a report and who will then duke it out with TD's own appraiser.
Such a headache. I'm feeling like switching insurers going forward at this point, but I'll follow through the process.
Such a headache. I'm feeling like switching insurers going forward at this point, but I'll follow through the process.
Lol. Amazing.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I suspect you got the treatment I mentioned earlier. Appraisers get unrealistic rebuttals all the time, they have a little wiggle room to work with, but for the most part they are dealing with guidebooks. When they see a request they consider fair and reasonable they will play ball. If they think the rebuttal is unreasonable, they presume a PawnStars client so they end the negotiation before it starts.
If you are able to repair the scooter, my guess is the cost to fix is a fraction of the appraised damage, it might be worthwhile asking them to let you keep the bike with a cash settlement. In another thread a fellow had his M50 written off. I checked the bike at auction, the appraisal to repair was $7000+, I located used good parts for less than $500 off Ebay.
If you are able to repair the scooter, my guess is the cost to fix is a fraction of the appraised damage, it might be worthwhile asking them to let you keep the bike with a cash settlement. In another thread a fellow had his M50 written off. I checked the bike at auction, the appraisal to repair was $7000+, I located used good parts for less than $500 off Ebay.
HST and "paperwork fees" aren't insured. You get to eat those.
You get to eat the HST on the replacement bike too.
sezme
Member
Unfortunately the shop says that there's frame damage. I think in reality they are covering their butts with regards to liability. In other words, the frame could potentially be damaged but they aren't positive. In any case, I think it will be (or already is) marked as irreparable.
Curious what your source is on that. My understanding is that I'm insured for the amount it would take to replace my lost property. In fact, TD did offer to pay their valuation + HST. Obviously, what I do with the money they eventually pay me is up to me. Certainly a portion of that settlement will go towards the government when I buy a replacement bike.
Ive been fortunate enough not to ever go through the process but from what I remember others going through, they do add HST..
sezme
Member
A little more research last night indicates that JD Power owns NADA valuation guides. (Ironic because nada means "nothing" in Spanish.) According to this article, two sources of valuation for motorcycles are Kelley Blue Book, and NADA, but NADA is preferred by insurance companies, probably because they are usually lower than Kelley values.
And it's true: I looked up both Kelley and NADA valuations of my model bike. The Kelley valuation (or "typical listing price") is exactly what I found to be true in Ontario when converted to Canadian dollars.
The NADA valuation is well below that. I don't know that NADA is evaluating the Ontario market in particular, or if it's North America - wide.
From my point of view, my insurance was supposed to offer me the money it would cost to replace my (no-fault!) damaged vehicle in reality, not in theory. Like with like. I'm not seeing any real effort on their part to do that.
Maybe, since it looks like I will be out a grand or two due to this incident, I will end up buying a different bike just so I get the illusion of "upgrading", even though I would have been more than happy to have my bike replaced with the same model/condition.
And it's true: I looked up both Kelley and NADA valuations of my model bike. The Kelley valuation (or "typical listing price") is exactly what I found to be true in Ontario when converted to Canadian dollars.
The NADA valuation is well below that. I don't know that NADA is evaluating the Ontario market in particular, or if it's North America - wide.
From my point of view, my insurance was supposed to offer me the money it would cost to replace my (no-fault!) damaged vehicle in reality, not in theory. Like with like. I'm not seeing any real effort on their part to do that.
Maybe, since it looks like I will be out a grand or two due to this incident, I will end up buying a different bike just so I get the illusion of "upgrading", even though I would have been more than happy to have my bike replaced with the same model/condition.
JD_PICKLE
Well-known member
Back in January, I had some what the opposite happen.
Was involved in a side-swipe collision. The repair was done and came to about $3100.
Picked up the car checked on Auto Trader what the car might be worth.
$3850, Why didn't they write it off?
I find insurance is a flip of the coin for what they end up doing.
Was involved in a side-swipe collision. The repair was done and came to about $3100.
Picked up the car checked on Auto Trader what the car might be worth.
$3850, Why didn't they write it off?
I find insurance is a flip of the coin for what they end up doing.
sezme
Member
Thought I should follow up on this thread since it is now resolved. TD stuck to their line that the only negotiation they would entertain is from a professional appraiser hired by me. I had difficulty finding an appraiser who would write a report for a reasonable fee.
But eventually I contacted a company called Instant Car Appraisal which advertises on Kijiji. I thought they might be a bit dodgy from their ads, but as it turned out, they were exceedingly reasonable ($50) and helpful. I can't recommend them highly enough, at least for my particular situation.
To restate the original offer by TD, it was 3750+tax. My appraiser wrote a report valuing my bike at $5300. TD countered with $4400+tax ($4,972). I could have negotiated further, but there's the chance that TD would then decide we need to hire a third appraiser which would cost each of us an extra $200, and we'd have to abide by that third appraiser's final decision. So I took the offer. It wasn't enough to completely pay for a replacement, but it was over $700 more than TD's original offer, so I did feel better about it, and it felt good to have it settled.
About TD's customer service, I'll say that they were always polite on the phone and by email (as was I). I don't like their policy of not negotiating directly with customers even when the customer is able to show them the values of comparable bikes. Also, the claims advisor who I dealt with throughout made two monetary errors in TD's favour and apologized both times when I pointed them out. I don't know if she's particularly careless or what, but either way it doesn't reflect well on TD Insurance. Also, I forgot to mention that they did pay for a new helmet: I submitted the receipt and they paid it before the bike was settled. I did have to ask about the helmet a couple of times before they offered to pay for it.
Also, last fall I ended up buying a used Honda NC700xa which is a lot of fun, and obviously quite a different beast from the maxi-scooter I had. I am now looking for a new insurer since my insurance renews at the end of this month. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know, but I'll call around.
But eventually I contacted a company called Instant Car Appraisal which advertises on Kijiji. I thought they might be a bit dodgy from their ads, but as it turned out, they were exceedingly reasonable ($50) and helpful. I can't recommend them highly enough, at least for my particular situation.
To restate the original offer by TD, it was 3750+tax. My appraiser wrote a report valuing my bike at $5300. TD countered with $4400+tax ($4,972). I could have negotiated further, but there's the chance that TD would then decide we need to hire a third appraiser which would cost each of us an extra $200, and we'd have to abide by that third appraiser's final decision. So I took the offer. It wasn't enough to completely pay for a replacement, but it was over $700 more than TD's original offer, so I did feel better about it, and it felt good to have it settled.
About TD's customer service, I'll say that they were always polite on the phone and by email (as was I). I don't like their policy of not negotiating directly with customers even when the customer is able to show them the values of comparable bikes. Also, the claims advisor who I dealt with throughout made two monetary errors in TD's favour and apologized both times when I pointed them out. I don't know if she's particularly careless or what, but either way it doesn't reflect well on TD Insurance. Also, I forgot to mention that they did pay for a new helmet: I submitted the receipt and they paid it before the bike was settled. I did have to ask about the helmet a couple of times before they offered to pay for it.
Also, last fall I ended up buying a used Honda NC700xa which is a lot of fun, and obviously quite a different beast from the maxi-scooter I had. I am now looking for a new insurer since my insurance renews at the end of this month. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know, but I'll call around.
Td mm offers discounts based on your associations. For instance, what school you graduated from, are you a member of professional engineers ontario, did you used to work for a municipality, etc. Discount varies dramatically based on which organization you are a part of. I once got three quotes for the same car, same driver, same location with tdmm and the cheapest was half of the most expensive so make sure you run all your options.
Relax
Well-known member
I get a corporate discount with Johnson, but all my bikes are on their restricted list, even my 88 Hawk. I'm pretty sure they completely blacklisted Harley and anything European.
Relax
Well-known member
Wow, State Farm was notorious for cheaping out on claims, but they were still willing to take Autotrader and Kijiji ads as proof of current value - the whole point is that those are the ones you have to choose from at that point in time if you were to buy the same one again.
Glad you got it resolved finally.
I can completely understand their position on not entertaining counter offers based on WTS ads off kijiji, FB, ebay etc...
What's to stop some unscrupulous person from creating a bunch of false ads with inflated asking prices in order to negotiate a higher payout.
You do have to play a bit hard with their adjusters.
Remember it is a business after all and they are trying to spend as little as possible to minimize their losses.
The only claim I've ever had was when a van hit me and totalled my car.
I'd had the car literally 3 weeks and the initial offer was half of what I paid for it.
After a few calls back and forth they agreed to pay off the existing finance loan in full, and gave me an extra $800.
I can completely understand their position on not entertaining counter offers based on WTS ads off kijiji, FB, ebay etc...
What's to stop some unscrupulous person from creating a bunch of false ads with inflated asking prices in order to negotiate a higher payout.
You do have to play a bit hard with their adjusters.
Remember it is a business after all and they are trying to spend as little as possible to minimize their losses.
The only claim I've ever had was when a van hit me and totalled my car.
I'd had the car literally 3 weeks and the initial offer was half of what I paid for it.
After a few calls back and forth they agreed to pay off the existing finance loan in full, and gave me an extra $800.
sburns
Well-known member
I ride a Harley and it's not blacklisted, but my agent did mention supersports bikes are.
sezme
Member
Well sure, someone could possibly do that, but if the ads were from legitimate dealers (which mine were), the insurance company could easily verify.
Correction: they are trying to spend as little as possible to maximize their profits. I think TD (and most banks and insurance companies) are doing reasonably well.
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