wheelie vs killer

[Rob MacLennan]

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Yes, but if that driver payed more attention they wouldn't be killing anyone. A vehicle is a two tone weapon on wheels. I think the charge should be upped if they cuase grivious bodily harm or death.

And I, as someone who has sailed over the full length of a car because of an inattentive (and uninsured, and unlicensed) driver, disagree. The 'crime' doesn't rise to that level. When we throw a leg over our bikes, we're acknowledging that the risk to us is greater than that of a passenger vehicle operator. We take that extra risk on, ourselves. It isn't the responsibility of others.

If someone knowingly risks my life, then that's a different story, but a moment of inattentiveness doesn't rise to the level of a criminal act and shouldn't ruin another life too.

 

[coyo]

And I, as someone who has sailed over the full length of a car because of an inattentive (and uninsured, and unlicensed) driver, disagree. The 'crime' doesn't rise to that level. When we throw a leg over our bikes, we're acknowledging that the risk to us is greater than that of a passenger vehicle operator. We take that extra risk on, ourselves. It isn't the responsibility of others.

If someone knowingly risks my life, then that's a different story, but a moment of inattentiveness doesn't rise to the level of a criminal act and shouldn't ruin another life too.

Very well put. While I'll certainly agree that the HTA could use some increased sentencing options to existing sections when the offense results in very serious injury or death, ultimately the fact that someone died does not change the fact that there was no criminal intent or act that led to the incident. You could "what if" this to death and in doing so we'd ALL recognize that we're all guilty of multiple "criminal" offenses if some of our HTA "transgressions" went badly (and let's not try to kid ourselves to say that we're all innocent, all the time, in the eyes of the HTA).

 

[rafiki911]

Hey Rob, I'm not talking as a motorcyclist only. I was hit while standing on a sidewalk....most would think this is a safe place with no risks...

And I, as someone who has sailed over the full length of a car because of an inattentive (and uninsured, and unlicensed) driver, disagree. The 'crime' doesn't rise to that level. When we throw a leg over our bikes, we're acknowledging that the risk to us is greater than that of a passenger vehicle operator. We take that extra risk on, ourselves. It isn't the responsibility of others.

If someone knowingly risks my life, then that's a different story, but a moment of inattentiveness doesn't rise to the level of a criminal act and shouldn't ruin another life too.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Hey Rob, I'm not talking as a motorcyclist only. I was hit while standing on a sidewalk....most would think this is a safe place with no risks...

I was a parking attendant at Pearson, through high school and college. If I included the number of times I was hit as a pedestrian in my 'collisions', we'd need a few more pages.

 

[rafiki911]

Yup, so being inattentive while driving can cause some serious damage to most others that are not in vehicles. Sorry but I really don't care what the law is right now. That there is criminal to me and not right. You guys are not going to change my mind about that.

I was a parking attendant at Pearson, through high school and college. If I included the number of times I was hit as a pedestrian in my 'collisions', we'd need a few more pages.

 

[coyo]

Nvm

 

[RedDogDarren]

Yup, so being inattentive while driving can cause some serious damage to most others that are not in vehicles. Sorry but I really don't care what the law is right now. That there is criminal to me and not right. You guys are not going to change my mind about that.

You do realize it's impossible to be 100% focused on everything you do at all times right? Your thoughts on criminal sentencing would have YOU yourself locked up forever very soon, guaranteed. No need to change your mind about it, experience will do that for you if you live long enough.

I've learned that there is very little on this planet that is black and white, mostly just shades of gray. So in condemning everything with one blanket thought will give you no room to grow mentally and lock you into one bitter cycle.

I've been hit head on by a 67 year old coming home from an Xmas party. He was probably drinking but who knows? I know that many car drivers can look right at you and not acknowledge a motorcycle as their brain tells them to look for a car. With luck we all learn to live another day and learn from any mistakes. Me passing out after the accident was good as I was in the process of getting up with the only thought of murdering the car driver. I'm glad I went down for a while. I had glimpses of coherency and remember him and his wife leaping over me to give me medical attention.

 

[rafiki911]

Yes, I understand that you cannot be 100% focused but most collisions could have been avioded with a bit more attention and a bit less selfishness. If you up the penalty then you will get people paying way more attention and have less collisions. Why is it wrong for me to want that?

You do realize it's impossible to be 100% focused on everything you do at all times right? Your thoughts on criminal sentencing would have YOU yourself locked up forever very soon, guaranteed. No need to change your mind about it, experience will do that for you if you live long enough.

I've learned that there is very little on this planet that is black and white, mostly just shades of gray. So in condemning everything with one blanket thought will give you no room to grow mentally and lock you into one bitter cycle.

I've been hit head on by a 67 year old coming home from an Xmas party. He was probably drinking but who knows? I know that many car drivers can look right at you and not acknowledge a motorcycle as their brain tells them to look for a car. With luck we all learn to live another day and learn from any mistakes. Me passing out after the accident was good as I was in the process of getting up with the only thought of murdering the car driver. I'm glad I went down for a while. I had glimpses of coherency and remember him and his wife leaping over me to give me medical attention.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Yup, so being inattentive while driving can cause some serious damage to most others that are not in vehicles. Sorry but I really don't care what the law is right now. That there is criminal to me and not right. You guys are not going to change my mind about that.

"Operation without due care and attention" and "dangerous operation of a vehicle" are not the same thing in common sense, nor in the law. Fortunately changing your mind is not necessary to the process.

I've learned that there is very little on this planet that is black and white, mostly just shades of gray. So in condemning everything with one blanket thought will give you no room to grow mentally and lock you into one bitter cycle.

Those who think that the world is full of shades of grey simply haven't looked closely enough. Even the grey is made up of little black and white dots

 

[rafiki911]

That's fine but just read what you wrote... operation without due care attention, is dangerous operation of a vehicle. Just like you shouldn't drive while intoxicated, tired, or emotional.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

That's fine but just read what you wrote... operation without due care attention, is dangerous operation of a vehicle. Just like you shouldn't drive while intoxicated, tired, or emotional.

No, it isn't. It's operation without due care and attention. Dangerous operation is intentionally being a wingnut. It's about intent.

 

[soto]

Unfortunately I don't think greater punishments will make drivers more attentive. I see cyclist and pedestrians every day being extremely inattentive and the potential penalty for that is death! And yet they don't seem to care... It just seems part of our culture to have a very limited sphere of awareness and an exaggerated sense of security.

 

[SkyRider]

Wow rob sounds like the pope. He should tell the widow of the rider recently killed by a left turn cager what he thinks. In fact he should suggest the widow and the killer have coffee together and talk it thru

How does anyone automatically know that a left turn killer is just inattentive? Most of the time these f'ers think they are so important and are in such a rush.

Riiiiight, being inattentive is also a licence to kill. Doesnt manslaughter mean killing someone without intent. Why the f these left turn killers don't get charged with that?

Rob is such a saint. He flew across a cagers hood and never blamed the inattentive cager. That is so noble.

 

[rafiki911]

That is also true, I've pulled people back a few times about to walk infront of a right turning vehicle just cause their light turned green. I don't know, all I know is it's messed up. We should send people to Greece for a week and they'll learn how to drive and walk at the same time... pedestrians definately don't come first there.lol

Unfortunately I don't think greater punishments will make drivers more attentive. I see cyclist and pedestrians every day being extremely inattentive and the potential penalty for that is death! And yet they don't seem to care... It just seems part of our culture to have a very limited sphere of awareness and an exaggerated sense of security.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Wow rob sounds like the pope. He should tell the widow of the rider recently killed by a left turn cager what he thinks. In fact he should suggest the widow and the killer have coffee together and talk it thru

How does anyone automatically know that a left turn killer is just inattentive? Most of the time these f'ers think they are so important and are in such a rush.

Riiiiight, being inattentive is also a licence to kill. Doesnt manslaughter mean killing someone without intent. Why the f these left turn killers don't get charged with that?

Rob is such a saint. He flew across a cagers hood and never blamed the inattentive cager. That is so noble.

It's presumed to be inattention, unless proved otherwise. When it comes to the law, you have to consider the situation while devoid of emotion. Making knee jerk decisions, based on emotion, is how things get so screwed up. There's a reason why all of those statues, on court steps, wear a blindfold.

*EDIT* And I never said that I didn't blame him for it, did I now? He shouldn't have been on the road, as my statements regarding the state of his license and insurance indicate.

 

[soto]

It's presumed to be inattention, unless proved otherwise. When it comes to the law, you have to consider the situation while devoid of emotion. Making knee jerk decisions, based on emotion, is how things get so screwed up. There's a reason why all of those statues, on court steps, wear a blindfold.

Technically the blindfold is supposed to mean that justice will apply to everyone equally, which of course is not true... Perhaps it would be if we all had the same lawyers.

There must be a way, however, to instil greater responsibility in drivers. I once saw a chick reading a book while doing 110kph on the highway! How would the law apply to her?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Technically the blindfold is supposed to mean that justice will apply to everyone equally, which of course is not true... Perhaps it would be if we all had the same lawyers.

There must be a way, however, to instil greater responsibility in drivers. I once saw a chick reading a book while doing 110kph on the highway! How would the law apply to her?

Actually it goes further than that; it implies applying the law with lack of bias. That covers far more than simple equality under the law.

At this point the options are for her to be charged with "operation without due care and attention", or nothing at all. Unfortunately the recent ban on using electronic devices, while driving, applies to eReaders but not books. That's a law, that was passed for purely emotional reasons.

 

[mlc]

If someone knowingly risks my life, then that's a different story, but a moment of inattentiveness doesn't rise to the level of a criminal act and shouldn't ruin another life too.

My wife, two children, a niece and nephew were crossing the road, after visiting my wife's grandmother. The crosswalk for them was clear. Three lanes of traffic were stopped at their red lights, with there being two lanes in each direction.

My family was crossing the road, when a driver drove straight through the red light, ignoring all the stopped vehicles, and red lights. He said he "just didn't see it". All my family members were hit by his vehicle. All of them were laying in the road. The ambulances came and took them all to hospital. My youngest was still in a stroller at the time.

They all survived.

If they hadn't, charging, or not charging that inattentive driver would have been irrelevant because my life would have been ruined.

You are looking at a serious issue from a surprisingly narrow-minded view point, with an obvious lack of concern for the victims. I hope you all never go through what I did.

 

[ZX600]

The point is if you change someones life or end their life you should pay for it. Getting a stupid little fine is not paying for what you did. A criminal record and taking someones licence on the other hand is paying for it. More serious concenquences for your actions will make better drivers if not less retards out on the road.

Sick of hearing the word accident...if it's preventable its not an accident. Oh sorry I didn't know that not looking before turning would kill you. Woops... my bad.

Be careful on what you wish for, anyone can have a moment of lack of concentration, we shouldn't but we all do, in that moment you can kill someone that decided to cross in front of you or whatever.

I do agree that someone carelessly making a left turn should get more than a kid that pops a wheely by mistake but we should be careful with what you wish for others that made a mistake.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

My wife, two children, a niece and nephew were crossing the road, after visiting my wife's grandmother. The crosswalk for them was clear. Three lanes of traffic were stopped at their red lights, with there being two lanes in each direction.

My family was crossing the road, when a driver drove straight through the red light, ignoring all the stopped vehicles, and red lights. He said he "just didn't see it". All my family members were hit by his vehicle. All of them were laying in the road. The ambulances came and took them all to hospital. My youngest was still in a stroller at the time.

They all survived.

If they hadn't, charging, or not charging that inattentive driver would have been irrelevant because my life would have been ruined.

You are looking at a serious issue from a surprisingly narrow-minded view point, with an obvious lack of concern for the victims. I hope you all never go through what I did.

And what was the driver charged with? Was he convicted of that, or something else?

As I said, the law must be applied without bias. The victims, and the victims' families, are hardly in a position to do that.

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