What insurance company does fire / theft only ? Don't need liability or collision

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Ninjitsu said:
I finally pulled the trigger and bought my first bike this weekend. I'm not going to put it on the road this fall and was wondering what my insurance options are. I'm storing it in my buddy's garage and would like it to be insured for fire and theft. Is it possible to START a policy with fire and theft only? Based on what I've read above there is some confusion. The bike came safetied so I could plate it but it sounds like that would say to the insurance company that I'm going to ride it. Any advice would be appreciated. I will call State Farm as well seeing as they are mentioned above as a possible solution.
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You can't plate a vehicle until you have it covered for road usage. The requirements for an Ontario plate are:

- Safety
- E-Test
- Proof of a Liability Insurance Policy

I don't know of any insurer willing to write a Comp-only policy on a bike. If you already have your M1/M2, just purchase a full insurance policy. The "premium used up" over the winter is very small. You are essentially paying now so that you can ride next Spring/Summer.
 
Thanks for the help guys.

So I'll be paying the full monthly amount if I purchase a full policy. I'm trying to save cash and looks like the only way to do that is to register the bike as 'unfit' and not plate it. This is a real downer because I paid for the bike safetied and now I'll have to get it safetied again come spring.

I know it's my fault for having the owner get a safety done and I'm bitter about having to pay for another one in the Spring but this seems like a flaw in the system. I buy a bike, have to register it, and need a safety and liability insurance to get plates yet I am not going to ride the bike. If I don't get insurance and don't put plates on the bike, I have no way to protect it from being stolen or burned in a fire.
 
Ninjitsu said:
Thanks for the help guys.

So I'll be paying the full monthly amount if I purchase a full policy. I'm trying to save cash and looks like the only way to do that is to register the bike as 'unfit' and not plate it. This is a real downer because I paid for the bike safetied and now I'll have to get it safetied again come spring.
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You aren't really saving that much by not insuring it. Insurance from now until next spring is something like 15% of the policy (didn't check the tables, just a reasonable guess). So if your policy is $3000/yr, to insure it over the winter would be ~$450. Your monthly payments would be $250/mo. If you are planning on putting insurance on in the spring (say beginning of May) and taking it off next fall (say end of September), your monthly payments would be $250/mo plus a balloon payment at the end of september of $1300.

You could save the $450 by not insuring now, but you are just delaying the inevitable. Bikes are expensive, not insuring them in the winter doesn't save you that much (and there are some beautiful riding days that would be missed without insurance).
 
I fully intend to keep insurance on the bike next winter and every winter after. I bought the bike in Ottawa and I live in Toronto and couldn't ride it back this weekend. I am fine with not riding this year because I won't have to pay for parking in my building, won't have to buy gear and was hoping I wouldn't have to pay for insurance. So why did I buy a bike now? Because it was a good deal and I've heard that prices get inflated in the Spring.

I just really thought the insurance companies would offer fire/theft for unplated bikes. Bad assumption and I've learned my lesson.
 
GS500 said:
Insurance companies are a continuous scam ! You will be quoted something stupid like $50.00 less a year. That's ONE YEAR for 4-5 months of riding. Wish this was Florida !!!

I wonder what the Insurance companies do for places like Florida and California ?

They ride all season so they MUST pay DOUBLE no ?
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You do know that Florida and California are in a different country right?
 
Ninjitsu said:
I fully intend to keep insurance on the bike next winter and every winter after. I bought the bike in Ottawa and I live in Toronto and couldn't ride it back this weekend. I am fine with not riding this year because I won't have to pay for parking in my building, won't have to buy gear and was hoping I wouldn't have to pay for insurance. So why did I buy a bike now? Because it was a good deal and I've heard that prices get inflated in the Spring.

I just really thought the insurance companies would offer fire/theft for unplated bikes. Bad assumption and I've learned my lesson.
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As GreyGhost pointed out, you aren't saving much money by waiting until the Spring to insure the bike. If you plan to ride in the Spring, then purchase your insurance policy now. Over the winter you will essentially be making prepayments for your Spring/Summer usage. Refer to my sticky threads regarding policy cancellations for a full explanation.
 
VifferFun said:
As GreyGhost pointed out, you aren't saving much money by waiting until the Spring to insure the bike. If you plan to ride in the Spring, then purchase your insurance policy now. Over the winter you will essentially be making prepayments for your Spring/Summer usage. Refer to my sticky threads regarding policy cancellations for a full explanation.
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I think I'm really missing something basic because I can't follow this logic. I realize that insurance will cost the same amount regardless of when I start it but like rent, cellphone or other monthly payments, why would I start to pay for insurance during the months I'm not going to use the bike? Especially when I can't afford it?

Based on the logic above, if I had waited until the spring to buy a bike, I should start paying insurance now on the prospect of the future purchase (seems absurd).
 
Ninjitsu said:
I think I'm really missing something basic because I can't follow this logic. I realize that insurance will cost the same amount regardless of when I start it but like rent, cellphone or other monthly payments, why would I start to pay for insurance during the months I'm not going to use the bike? Especially when I can't afford it?
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Suppose your annual premium is $1200. You can think of this as a SEASONAL premium, rather than an annual premium. This $1200 is what you pay for the right to ride in the Spring/Summer/Fall. The Winter is essentially free, since no one is riding in the winter. Look at my State Farm cancellation thread which explains how premium is earned for each month of the year.

Since you know that you will be riding next Spring, you might as well start your seasonal policy now, so that your bike will be covered for Fire and theft for "free" over the winter. Whether you start now or in the Spring, you will be paying the entire $1200 seasonal premium anyway. If you can't afford the seasonal premium at this moment, then I'm afraid you're SOL as far as insuring your bike for Fire and Theft over the winter goes.

Ninjitsu said:
Based on the logic above, if I had waited until the spring to buy a bike, I should start paying insurance now on the prospect of the future purchase (seems absurd).
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No . . . if you were waiting until the Spring to buy the bike, then you wouldn't have a bike that you would want insured for Fire and Theft over the winter.
 
Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. I just had the Ah Ha! moment.

I didn't realize that this was all based on my request for Fire and Theft. So I understand now that I'm SOL for getting Fire and Theft without a full policy. I will just have to assume the risk and if the bike gets stolen or burns in the garage I will be really SOL.

How much would it cost to start an insurance company that only insures unplated vehicles for Fire and Theft? Vifferfun - want to be CEO?
 
Ninjitsu said:
Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. I just had the Ah Ha! moment.

I didn't realize that this was all based on my request for Fire and Theft. So I understand now that I'm SOL for getting Fire and Theft without a full policy. I will just have to assume the risk and if the bike gets stolen or burns in the garage I will be really SOL.

How much would it cost to start an insurance company that only insures unplated vehicles for Fire and Theft? Vifferfun - want to be CEO?
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I still suggest that you just insure the bike now, rather than risking the bike over the winter. In this situation, the only disadvantage to you is that you are paying for your season's premium a little earlier than if you were to commence the policy in the Spring.

Thefts are very common for SS bikes -- I wouldn't want to touch that business as a stand-alone policy. If writing a theft-only policy for bikes was profitable, then most companies would offer it without any issues. One could charge a theoretically sound premium for such a coverage, but I'm not sure how many people would want it given the cost.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I was able to register the bike today as FIT but unplated. My bike is in the back of a garage behind a car in a very residential area of the city so I feel it is less of a target for theft. At least now I have some time to shop around for insurance although your sticky predicts State Farm will be the way to go.

"the only disadvantage to you is that you are paying for your season's premium a little earlier than if you were to commence the policy in the Spring." - I still don't understand why I would start a policy now when the bike won't be on the road (assuming the risk that it could be stolen). The other disadvantage to paying early is that cash can be put towards other things like debt or investments (which are time sensitive due to the interest).

You must be getting frustrated with me so I might just have to call and talk to someone who can tolerate my lack of comprehension.
 
Ninjitsu said:
"I still don't understand why I would start a policy now when the bike won't be on the road (assuming the risk that it could be stolen)."
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I don't know if this helps but with State Farm, it's an annual policy where you get to make 12 equal monthly payments.

For example, say your insurance is $1,200 per year. You pay $100 a month for the year. You use up 16% of the annual premium in a month like July, so $192. In January, you use 2%, which is $24. But in each of those months, you still pay $100. So if you started a policy today, and don't plan to ride the bike until April, you're paying "ahead" over the winter months to compensate for the more expensive summer months. If you started the policy in April, then the $100 a month that you pay from October until the following April is making up for what you already used up in the summer.

Basically, it really doesn't matter, at least with State Farm, when you start the policy, because it's a year policy and by the time the year has elapsed, you'll have paid for it in full. It only matters if you cancel the insurance coverage. If you start a policy in April and sell your bike in September, you're still going to owe for the premium that was used up in the peak months, (that $192 I mentioned, when you only paid $100 that month).

Clear as mud? lol
 
Hey Katherine,

Ya it's clear. I don't plan on cancelling my policy next fall. I'm just going to pretend that I didn't buy a bike. Therefore I have no reason to start an insurance policy now. I know that I can't get fire/theft only so I'm assuming the risk. It will be 7 months before my bike is on the road (weather permitting). So I could pay 700$ for fire and theft or just risk it. I think I'm comfortable with saving the money. If my bike is stolen then shame on me for not taking Vifferfun's advice.
 
Ninjitsu said:
Hey Katherine,

Ya it's clear. I don't plan on cancelling my policy next fall. I'm just going to pretend that I didn't buy a bike. Therefore I have no reason to start an insurance policy now. I know that I can't get fire/theft only so I'm assuming the risk. It will be 7 months before my bike is on the road (weather permitting). So I could pay 700$ for fire and theft or just risk it. I think I'm comfortable with saving the money. If my bike is stolen then shame on me for not taking Vifferfun's advice.
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You're still not understanding -- draw up a timeline to figure it out. Suppose that you plan to be insured until March 2014.

If You Start Now:
YR1: Covered from Sept 2011 to Aug 2012
YR2: Covered from Sept 2012 to Aug 2013
YR3: Covered from Sept 2013 to Mar 2014
- Then cancel policy midterm and be reimbursed for all unused premium

If You Start in the Spring:
YR1: Covered from Apr 2012 to Mar 2013
YR2: Covered from Apr 2013 to Mar 2014
- Then decide not to renew the policy
The ONLY difference/disadvantage to starting now is that you will have to pay the small premium for coverage over the offseason months (Sep11 to Mar12). Coverage in the off season with State Farm costs you:

SEP: 12% (high b/c September is still a good riding month)
OCT: 8% (you can still ride in October until you think it's too cold)
NOV: 2% (very small premium b/c you're not riding; essentially just for Fire/Theft)
DEC: 2% (very small premium b/c you're not riding; essentially just for Fire/Theft)
JAN: 2% (very small premium b/c you're not riding; essentially just for Fire/Theft)
FEB: 2% (very small premium b/c you're not riding; essentially just for Fire/Theft)
MAR: 4% (a little higher because you can sometimes ride late in March)

Should you wait until the Spring?

If you don't think it is worth 26% of your annual premium for the following benefits (calculated as 12%/2 + 8% + 2% + 2% + 2% + 2% + 4%), then go ahead and wait until the Spring:

a.) Ability to ride for the remainder of the season. Personally, some of my favourite riding is in the Fall because I prefer the cool weather over the brutal hot.

b.) Fire/Theft coverage for your bike over the entire Winter.

c.) Ability to ride your bike any time over the winter if there is a hot spell. We've had a few of these days in the past, where bikers have got their bike out in the middle of the winter just for kicks :)

d.) The ability to ride your bike in March as soon as the weather is tolerable.
 
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I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this all to me. I think there is some confusion about what I want to do and can afford to do.

My bike is in Ottawa. That's a 6-7 hour ride away (I'm a beginner and feel that length of ride is a bit intimidating when my only riding experience is the safety course). I'm in no rush to ride. If I won some money then I would be more than eager.

At this point I still need to buy gear $600-800.
I would need to pay for parking in my building over the next 7 months if I brought the bike to Toronto - $350.
If I get quoted for $1000 a year, how much will my insurance payments be for October-March? I assume $1000/12 = $83 per month. So $500. (You say "you will have to pay the small premium for coverage over the offseason months" Are the monthly payments less than $1000/12 during the winter months?)

This ads up to $1400 give or take that I don't have. I am completely comfortable not riding until the spring. My only concern when I first posted was fire/theft coverage. I know I can't get it independently and realize I'm risking the investment I've made in my bike. I'm comfortable with that.

Thanks again for your patience and time explaining things to me.
 
Ninjitsu said:
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this all to me. I think there is some confusion about what I want to do and can afford to do.

My bike is in Ottawa. That's a 6-7 hour ride away (I'm a beginner and feel that length of ride is a bit intimidating when my only riding experience is the safety course). I'm in no rush to ride. If I won some money then I would be more than eager.

At this point I still need to buy gear $600-800.
I would need to pay for parking in my building over the next 7 months if I brought the bike to Toronto - $350.
If I get quoted for $1000 a year, how much will my insurance payments be for October-March? I assume $1000/12 = $83 per month. So $500. (You say "you will have to pay the small premium for coverage over the offseason months" Are the monthly payments less than $1000/12 during the winter months?)

This ads up to $1400 give or take that I don't have. I am completely comfortable not riding until the spring. My only concern when I first posted was fire/theft coverage. I know I can't get it independently and realize I'm risking the investment I've made in my bike. I'm comfortable with that.

Thanks again for your patience and time explaining things to me.
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Over the winter, your premium payments will exceed the amount of premium that you are "using up". For example, if your annual premium is $1000, then you will:

a.) Pay $500 from October 2011 to March 2012
b.) "Use up" $200 (20%) of your annual premium

In other words, if you were to cancel on March 31, 2011, you would be reimbursed for $500 - $200 = $300.

If you can't afford to essentially pre-pay the seasonal premium before the Spring, then that will tip your decision scale toward waiting. Just pray that your bike isn't stolen. At least you're storing it in Ottawa which is a lower-risk area for theft.

Also, just an FYI -- you said that you live "a building" in Toronto. If you live in an apartment/condo, are you aware that the theft rates in T.O. condos are ridiculous? If you park your bike in an underground lot, there is a very good chance that it will be stolen, especially if it's a Sport Bike. Do a search in the forum for "condo" and I bet you'll get hundreds of hits on the "Oh no, my bike was just stolen!" threads. At least this is your first bike, so I'm assuming it's not a Sport Bike anyway, but just remember this for the future if you ever decide to get a SS bike.
 
I'm not going to lie, my building isn't the most secure and not in the safest neighbourhood. There are about 7-8 bikes in the garage now and at least 4 of them are SS. I have an 09 Ninja 250. I assume that parking in the garage of a condo will increase my premium? I'm curious what everyone else living in the downtown core does? Don't we get insurance to protect from theft in the first place? What do you suggest I do to protect my bike? Alarm? Chain lock? I've read a lot about this and if the guys want the bike, they're going to take it anyway. What a lot of people do in my lot is sandwich the bike between the wall and their car. At least it makes it tougher to access.
 
Ninjitsu said:
I'm not going to lie, my building isn't the most secure and not in the safest neighbourhood. There are about 7-8 bikes in the garage now and at least 4 of them are SS. I have an 09 Ninja 250. I assume that parking in the garage of a condo will increase my premium? I'm curious what everyone else living in the downtown core does? Don't we get insurance to protect from theft in the first place? What do you suggest I do to protect my bike? Alarm? Chain lock? I've read a lot about this and if the guys want the bike, they're going to take it anyway. What a lot of people do in my lot is sandwich the bike between the wall and their car. At least it makes it tougher to access.
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You should pay more for insurance in a condo, but I don't know of any insurers who make this distinction (yet).

Yes, you buy Comprehensive to cover you for theft, but you are still on the hook for the deductible. Some guys get all upset because they also lose their mods that they were hiding from the insurer. Also, some people just get attached to their bike :)

There are threads devoted to how people attempt to keep their bike safe. Your 250 isn't a high-target item, so you have less to worry about. The thieves will definitely go for the SS bikes first.
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