What are your lap times?

[Brian P]

I have a fix for those who find corner 5 scary: 60 horsepower! Mine doesn't accelerate hard enough out of 4b for corner 5 to be much of an issue. Still have to back off for a moment to get it turned, then right back on.

Corner 6 is quite another matter due to the bumps (and my old skool damper rod non-inverted forks).

 

[reciprocity]

And yes... I am being dead serious about overthiking all this. Humans can't process that much information in those time frames... It has to become learned reactions IMO...

In 4 years of racing, I don't think I EVER picked a brake marker other then... "Turn coming... turn coming.. turn coming... NOW".

+1

In 30 years of racing I've never selected a brake marker beyond this level either.

 

[gsxr guy]

Thanks

Ok, so a question(not about cheeseburgers). What is the best strategy that I can follow to work my way up to a higher entry and extra from the end of Fabi. What startegy do I folllow to convince my brain I can carry longer down the stretch and more speed through the turn?[/QUOTE. Most people need a brake marker for any over 220km/h brake zones, as your eyes and brain can not process fast enough. So find a marker for where you are braking now. Then brake at that marker every lap. With each lap brake harder than your last. Soon you will find you are shedding more speed than needed. Once that happens move your marker a few feet closer to the corner. By the end of the day you will be braking just in time to still make the corner. This is the safest way to become a master late braker.

 

[caboose56]

Too much thinking going on... You are supposed to think about what your going to have for dinner and drink for the evening while you are riding...

Things like..
"I think I smell a BBQ..." (next time around) "Yup, I did!"
"Did I just kill that poor butterfly"
"That a**hole thinks he is going up the inside... well I got news for him!"
"Bet I can go into that turn harder and faster this time then last time"

And yes... I am being dead serious about overthiking all this. Humans can't process that much information in those time frames... It has to become learned reactions IMO...

In 4 years of racing, I don't think I EVER picked a brake marker other then... "Turn coming... turn coming.. turn coming... NOW".

Maybe others can... but I couldn't do things like pick points and expect to react... Maybe that is why I was always "lucky" with respect to highsides... by the time I figured out what was going on, the bike had straightened out and I was long past the point of interfering with the machines abilities lol...

+1

In 30 years of racing I've never selected a brake marker beyond this level either.

Most corners I go by feel or by timing but there are a few corners that I use brake markers with.

 

[reciprocity]

fast laptimes don't really come by crazy late braking, the come from corner exit speed.

Most of us will go significantly faster if you give up a bit of entry speed for a more early application of acceleration.

Bikes are MUCH easier to control, turn and manipulate under acceleration than they are under braking

 

[doozerdave]

I have a fix for those who find corner 5 scary: 60 horsepower! Mine doesn't accelerate hard enough out of 4b for corner 5 to be much of an issue. Still have to back off for a moment to get it turned, then right back on.

Corner 6 is quite another matter due to the bumps (and my old skool damper rod non-inverted forks).

I've got 72hp, so turn 5 is only slightly scary and only sometimes. haha... Going into turn 6 do you have problems with the massive crack that sets the front end into chattering if you don't let off the brake slightly going over it? My SV is fairly well set up but if I'm full on the brakes for that crack it's bad news.

 

[doozerdave]

fast laptimes don't really come by crazy late braking, the come from corner exit speed.

Most of us will go significantly faster if you give up a bit of entry speed for a more early application of acceleration.

Bikes are MUCH easier to control, turn and manipulate under acceleration than they are under braking

+1 cheeseburger.

Trying to eke out a few more meters on the brakes will, in a lot of cases, make you overbrake going in and you'll feel like you're in too hot and can't get back on the gas as soon as you should for a strong exit. This is why, for most people, litre bikes are bad to learn on. You don't learn smooth, fast cornering because you're too busy trying to slow the damned thing down!

 

[gsxr guy]

If all other factors are equal. Races are won on the brakes.

 

[reciprocity]

If all other factors are equal. Races are won on the brakes.

racing and fast laptimes are different.

If you watch superpole type qualifying, with riders on their own, there is often significant

In "RACE" situations, optimum line selection is not always available, late braking etc provides is a tactical move that is planned based on observation of the rider you are trying to pass.

In any race type, how many times has the "LATE BRAKER" gone past the other combatant only to ruin the rest of the corner and have the other individual squeeze up the inside and gain an advantage.

For the average rider, or even racer early acceleration will trump late braking 95% of the time.

 

[Brian P]

Going into turn 6 do you have problems with the massive crack that sets the front end into chattering if you don't let off the brake slightly going over it? My SV is fairly well set up but if I'm full on the brakes for that crack it's bad news.

Corner 6 used to be okay years back (and so did the rest of the track). The way it is now, I don't know a way of going fast through corner 6 without chattering somewhere. Modern suspensions ought to do better, but racers on newer bikes say the track is rough, too. I've given up on the place.

 

[Brian P]

Most people need a brake marker for any over 220km/h brake zones, as your eyes and brain can not process fast enough. So find a marker for where you are braking now. Then brake at that marker every lap. With each lap brake harder than your last. Soon you will find you are shedding more speed than needed. Once that happens move your marker a few feet closer to the corner. By the end of the day you will be braking just in time to still make the corner. This is the safest way to become a master late braker.

It's a useful exercise to know how hard you can brake, in case you need it, but in normal circumstances I try to put more emphasis into getting the entrance speed and line correct while not upsetting the suspension.

 

[doozerdave]

Corner 6 used to be okay years back (and so did the rest of the track). The way it is now, I don't know a way of going fast through corner 6 without chattering somewhere. Modern suspensions ought to do better, but racers on newer bikes say the track is rough, too. I've given up on the place.

So it's not just me that was faster through 6 10 years ago than I am now? At least they repaved turn 2/3 and got rid of the tar snakes. haha... I really like the track layout, so I keep going back there, even with it being a 3+ hour drive. This year I might only go once though.

 

[bakaboy]

I'll likely get flamed on this but what I am hearing is that for me to get my time to the 1 55 or lower on SMTP Long I need to use my brakes more. The first year I didn't really use them at all. Last year I did and I got better times. For the first while I was focussed on lines and being consistent on throttle in/thru/out of turns. I will just need to ensure that I work slowly to go a little deeper before I slowly increase how much I apply them. I am always afraid of over applying them as unsettling the bike under me.

I need to work on my entry to 6A so that I am better setup for 7.

I have improved my hairpin speed at the hairpin which greatly improved my run down Fabi straight. I used to think that others just had better HP or teeth settings cause they really left me on the straight. Not as much now.

If I can slowly work on braking for 2, 11 and 13 I think I will see my times move.

It won't mean that I am still not riding like I have an anchor on my *** for the rest of the track....

Thanks everyone.

 

[ZX600]

I think the most important thing is controlled entry into the turn and going on the gas earlly on the exit = faster lap times

 

[Shaman]

Getting on the gas early also leads to one of the sport's most enjoyable features: The Highside.

The last time I enjoyed one, I shortened my spine by 1/8th of an inch and gave myself a concussion such that I couldn't balance well enough to walk straight for two weeks.

 

[reciprocity]

According to Chris Chappelle, I still own the most spectacular highside he has seen occur at Shannonville.

 

[kellen]

did you stick the landing?

 

[Brian P]

I'll likely get flamed on this but what I am hearing is that for me to get my time to the 1 55 or lower on SMTP Long I need to use my brakes more.

It's all a balance. If you are slowing down for a corner by shutting off the throttle before the halfway mark on the straightaway instead of using the brakes (and yes, I've seen and heard it done that way on track days!) then yes, staying on the throttle longer and using the brakes up to a certain level is going to help. But pushing the ultimate limit of braking, with the rear tire just skipping the ground (and the bike on the verge of getting way out of shape), unless your name is Nicky Hayden, is going to make most people slow down too much and/or blow the corner and go straight every third lap.

 

[Shaman]

unless your name is Nicky Hayden, is going to make most people slow down too much and/or blow the corner and go straight every third lap.

Not if they do it at Calabogie. Their lapping is over...

 

[gsxr guy]

fast laptimes don't really come by crazy late braking, the come from corner exit speed.

Most of us will go significantly faster if you give up a bit of entry speed for a more early application of acceleration.

Bikes are MUCH easier to control, turn and manipulate under acceleration than they are under braking

I agree with corner exit speed on to a straight, is most important. However the longer you can carry that speed the lower your times. So braking late is almost as important. I am not saying to give up on mid corner speed. That means you are braking too late.