We WERE all set to start the motorcycle lifestyle...

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Nitromethane1261 said:
3 weeks ago we were looking at e-Bikes as a way to get around the city, but their limited range and the hassles of figuring out where to charge the battery in an apartment building made that a short lived idea. This progressed to getting a Vespa - but lets face it - you still need to get a license and insurance for a Vespa, and it's not very "cool" - so my wife said "well since you need a license and insurance anyway, why don't you just get a motorcycle?"
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A few things;

You can get e-bikes with removable batteries, so you just carry them inside and charge them up like your cell phone.

Also, if running errands and getting out of town, maybe touring the countryside 2-up are still your intended uses for a bike then you can get a larger scooter that would fit the bill well. They have their own brand of cool I guess, but hey we're all rebels anyways, right?
http://cmgonline.com/images/stories/archives/CMG_test_rides/05_Maj_Burg_X9/index.html
 
Better site to ask qestions http://www.burgmanusa.com/forums/
43 years riding - best all around bike I've owned. Tour or twisties or grocery shopping.

bike on the right - 1600 km north of Toronto on the James Bay Road

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Good value and rock solid.

400 version might be a better starter version for a new rider.
 
I do what I can to minimize risks (I read Proficient Motorcycling, Sport Riding Techniques, seen Twist of the Wrist, put on what's pretty much a truck horn, cover my brakes and look both ways when going through intersections, etc.). I've learned to predict my bike and how it moves (without getting too comfortable), and it really helps in emergency/panic situations.

I tell everyone who asks me to try it out and see if you're willing to die for it. I wouldn't get a bike based on the savings - unless the savings are more important than your life. I know too many people who get into riding for the wrong reasons, and it's gonna suck if anything ever happens to them.

If you're an average driver, think long and hard before you get on a bike. But good on you for putting some real thought into it before taking the plunge...
 
Well I commute on my bike, have 16 years of riding and almost 750,000 km on the street racked up and raced as a AM for a number of years. I'm still alive an kicking. I have one low speed crash on the street that was deemed not my fault.

Yes its more risky then driving a large pickup or SUV. But if you understand the risks, and mitigate them to you comfort level then its very enjoyable method of transportation.

I would suggest you both do the course. Even if you have one bike, it means that each of you will understand the basics, and if you touring and feel you really shouldn't be the one controlling the bike she can take over for a bit.

edit - and yes most of what you read about crashes online are the rare circumstances or stupid people. Some left turn cars, and street car tracks being the exception.
 
Does your wife read articles about all the bad things that COULD happen while driving a pickup truck too (rollovers, getting hit by a big rig, etc)? ;)
 
Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan The first thing that you have to realize, about motorcycles, is that they are inherently unstable. If you don't hold them up, they fall down. Everything after that is gravy.
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I don't want to confuse the OP but that comment ONLY applies to motorcycles that are stopped or going very slow.

Like a top they ARE inherently stable and do not want to "fall over" when moving...the trick is to master the physics of that.

A properly designed motorcycle is extremely stable when in motion.

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  • A spinning wheel, by virtue of its rotational inertia, is stable. The greater the speed of the spinning wheel the greater the stability. Rotational stability is diminished as the wheel speed approaches zero - which is why it is much easier to balance a bicycle or a motorcycle when the wheels are spinning rapidly.
  • A motorcycle spinning wheel is stable even if it is not in contact with the ground, e.g., wheelies are much easier to control if the front wheel is spinning rapidly when it's in the air (see videos below).
  • A force or torque is required to change the direction, lean or speed of a spinning wheel. A spinning wheel may move forward or backward, side to side, or up and down freely - but a torque is required to change the orientation of the wheel or its rotational speed.
  • Spinning wheels (and crankshafts, sprockets and gears) possess a quantity known as angular momentum (l = mvr) The greater the mass, the radius or the speed of the spinning wheel the greater the angular momentum (and the greater the rotational inertia). The greater the angular momentum, the greater the amount of torque required to initiate a change in direction or lean angle in a spinning wheel.
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  • When a torque is applied to a rotating wheel along an axis perpendicular to the rotational axis of the spinning wheel (as in steering a motorcycle or a bicycle) it results in another rotation of the wheel (precession) about an axis perpendicular to both the original rotation and the applied torque. This results in leaning.
  • Gyroscopic effects are influenced by chassis design. Performance motorcycles are engineered to straddle the divide between performance and stability.
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this will get you a ticket but it is a good demonstration

martin_tw_1.jpg


Slow speed handling especially two up and in traffic takes practice - that is where stability is tricky.

Rolling along on good roads with even a modicum of engineering on curves is effortless.

Spiriting riding with tighter curves, decreasing radius curves ( nasty ) and off camber takes caution and experience to master.

Dirt and gravel are entirely different skills and can and in my view should be a part of an experienced riders skill set.
Road bikes generally are fine ridden carefully on dirt roads and riders should tackle a few from time to time to know how their bike reacts - in traffic on a construction zone is not the time to find out.

Gravel on corners can be a concern if riding hard and even at times when casual riding - just don't panic and over control - again - practice in a parking lot - see what it feels like.

Saddle time not distance is critical. Most of us are always rusty after the winter lay off. You can get 8-9 months good riding in this part of Ontario.

ALL activities carry risks including cooking and stepping into a bath or shower. Some common sense and caution and willingness to improve skills can dramatically reduce risks.

I've 43 years riding, still all intact... a few falls in winter under very adverse conditions and lots of falls on the trials bikes - that all is useful for road skills.

The nice thing with the big scoots is it removes entirely one aspect and that is shifting and clutching.
I'll never go back and most riders who experience a good CVT or DCT would not either as it allows you to entirely concentrate on handing and braking and the conditions around you.

The future is moving that way....not a bad way to start in an urban setting.
 
Didn't read all the posts, but I read the OPs.

First off riding is more dangerous than driving, you know this. The risks of riding can be greatly diminished by doing various things such as but not limited to:

- Proper Gear - yes it might not save you from bouncing off a semi.... but it might. Recently watching a race (on a track) a guy got hit in the head by a motorcycle that was traveling VERY quickly, he got knocked out for a bit, but lived because of the helmet.
- Time of day, riding at night is not as safe, because your vision is compromised.
- Riding sober
- Riding where there is less traffic. Burbs and cities aren't the best place.... less cars are a good thing
- Practice. How many people here practice emergency braking and swerving while riding at or close to their typical highway cruising speed? If you don't know how the bike will react, then you can't get the most out of your vehicle when trying to avoid a crash. Also, learn how to corner at a track school... realize that often you have a lot more lean angle left before you lose traction.
- Mental state - I have turned around and gone home when things just weren't feeling right.
- Don't ride over your skill level or too fast for what you can see
- Vision, there are various vision techniques that are invaluable Twist of the Wrist II book talks about these.... i.e. don't focus on only 1 thing.... keep things "on notice" in your peripheral vision.
- keep up the maintenance of your vehicle.

You do these things right... and there are others... and the chances of getting into a crash will be reduced or if you get into one, hopefully the speed will have been reduced enough in combination with proper gear to keep you safe. You are only as safe as what you put into it.

BTW - having to go faster around a corner to make it safer is COMPLETE BS. It might be safer TO LEAN MORE as opposed to standing the bike up and riding off the other side of the road, but that's a different story.
 
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My personal advice is to pass. Motorcycling REALLY picked up in the 70's to the 90's, however the numbers are still going up, but percentage wise, the number of cars on the road is 100x ever year. With each passing year I feel riding is more dangerous, and there really is no way they can make it any safer on these roads. Remember that your backyard the 401 is the most traveled freeway in North America, and again, look at the fallen riders section.

I grew up riding dirtbikes, and bought my first street bike years back, and always felt somewhat invincible. I'm always in control, extremely aware, and very cautious. I was in an accident last summer by a driver that drove right in front of me when I was going through a green light. I was not speeding, I was obeying the law, and his only excuse was, " I just didn't see him ". His few second memory lapse could very easily of paralyzed me. Instead, and thankfully, I only received a handful of broken bones.

A lot of people don't get second chances in motorcycle accidents, I however did. Some people get back on the bike and push there luck further, and I have, except I ride very seldom these days. In the end, for me, motorcycling is a great feeling, a great release from everyday stresses, and it can be downright fun. I just don't feel that it all that adds up enough for me to ride the streets anymore. There are other things I can do that give just as much fun and excitement, and I don't have to put my life in the hands on the daily idiots on the road talking on cell phones, and dropping morning coffees.
 
mikbusa said:
Now, I'm no statistician, but I do own some expensive calculators. It looks like walking is more dangerous.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/opine/helmets.html
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Pedestrian fatalities for Ontario in 2008 numbered around 93 or so, versus 53 for motorcycles. Mind you, there were several million more pedestrians out there than there was motorcycle riders or passengers, so the odds still hugely favoured the pedestrian as far as being able to arrive home safely.
 
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In my opinion you shouldn't bother getting into riding if you don't have a little bit of the "I'd rather live a little risky than live boring" type of attitude because it is very dangerous as far as I've been able to tell. However, staying within the speed limit (or below depending on weather) and riding only in good weather will help you stay a lot safer IMO. A bike with ABS will be good for those emergency situations and those rare occasions you get caught in the rain.

Honestly, other than my first day mistake crash and a few sketchy incidents with cagers, the only time I really consider a bike to be truly unsafe is in rain (the traction just seems so terrible, maybe I just lack confidence or have ****** tires) or when traveling at speeds above what would be considered "leisurely".
 
lol you mean you don't already have life insurance? You'd only 'have to' get it if you got into motorcycling?
 
unL33T said:
the only time I really consider a bike to be truly unsafe is in rain (the traction just seems so terrible, maybe I just lack confidence or have ****** tires)
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You need some PR2's on that 650 and rain will never be an issue again.
 
Nitromethane1261 said:
That said - while the idea of riding was spawned by the financial incentive - it is the joy and experience of powersports that kept us interested. While I may sound like an over-thinking overly cautious individual, that was not always the case (although I may analyze things more than many lol).
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Another thought that comes up - that i don't think i've really seen addressed yet. is the financial aspect - the fallacy that motorcycling is a 'cheap' form of transportation. It isn't.

Factor in insurance, consumable parts costs, safety gear costs, maintenance and service costs, and this activity can get expensive, fast. Relative to automobiles, insurance can be comparable to or more expensive on average for full coverage. $350-450.00 in tires every 10-15k is pretty much common for any motorcycle using radial tubeless tires. Waiting for overly expensive parts to come into the dealership while your ride is broken, can take weeks to months.

Etc Etc..
 
MacDoc said:
I don't want to confuse the OP but that comment ONLY applies to motorcycles that are stopped or going very slow.

Like a top they ARE inherently stable and do not want to "fall over" when moving...the trick is to master the physics of that.

A properly designed motorcycle is extremely stable when in motion.
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This is certainly true and you can go on about Newton's Laws, gyroscopic stabilization, and gyroscopic precession vis-a-vis countersteering ad nauseum, if you like but the simple truth, that is most easy for a new rider to understand, is that motorcycles don't stay up by themselves. A moving motorcycle still falls, albeit more slowly.
 
Yeah I get where you are coming from but from the outside the Mcycle looks far more unstable than it is in motion so particularly wifey should understand that's it's a pretty stable vehicle in motion.

BUT at slow speeds it's anything but and she needs to learn to be a pillion passenger which is another art on it's own for both riders.

What not to underestimate with the importance of design for handling - long wheelbase versus short, rake, wheel diameter and those are factors in choosing his bike that will make a big difference in handling for different conditions

Small wheels track ruts for instance ( something annoying on the Silverwing but gone on the quite similar Burgman 650 ).

Riding position for this venture is also a BIG TIME consideration and I'd very much recommend upright to start.
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