We WERE all set to start the motorcycle lifestyle...

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I will offer you one advice, and it's not limited to matters of motorcycle lifestyle:

Watch who's advice you're taking.

(what an act of hypocrisy :rolleyes: )

Internet is one messed up place with too many "experts". If you take everything you read at face value, you're bound to get it wrong.
Do what you love.
 
Your wife only feels safe driving a deer-crushing truck and now you're trying to convince yourselves riding motorcycles in downtown Toronto is a viable mode of transportation? Stick with the truck, you can run over cabs with it.
 
Hi Nitromethane1261,
First off I would applaud your maturity in deciding to research and have all the facts before determining if being a motorcyclist is something you really want to get into. Too many people get caught up in the "coolness" of it and unfortunately end up getting a rude wake up call.
Here's my 2 cents.
After reading your post my initial reaction was that this person doesn't really want to ride but is looking at it as a cheaper form of transportation. If gas prices were lower and you didn't have that lower paying job then you and your wife would still be taking those future trips on 4 wheels and not 2. Maybe you have always wanted to ride, but based on your post I'm assuming you wouldn't even be thinking about it now if things were different.
With that said, riding is something I believe you should want to do not because you have to but because you want to. There are too many inherent risks with riding that if you don't enjoy it enough, you will just be wasting your time and in a year or so get out of it. To believe that you will be a fair weather rider and never have to deal with rain or night time riding is unrealistic, unless you plan on only taking short road trips in a localized area and following the weather channel like a teenage girl follows 90210.
All of the concerns that your wife has are valid and do happen, your bike will lose traction crossing the painted lane markers but so does your car, its just more apparent on your bike, if its been lightly raining and the paint is thick enough, when your tire goes over it will slip, as long as your aren't doing something stupid at that time it shouldn't be an issue. Considering the temperment that you both seem to have I wouldn't worry about the majority of the problems she might come across in her research. However accidents happen and you have to understand that you are in a vehicle that is less visible to traffic, less protected from the traffic and has less traction than a car and is more stable the faster you go. In terms of the turn speeds, I've never taken a corner at the posted speed and felt like it wasn't safe, its all a matter of matching the lean/turn to your speed and the radius of the corner.
Going back to the main reason you want the bike (cost) I think it would be more beneficial to be purchasing a small car (GASP). I know you mentioned that your wife doesn't feel safe in cars but I seriously doubt she is going to feel safer on the back of a bike going 120 passing 3 feet from a Semi tractor trailer on the 401. Or the first time someone does a lane change without a shoulder check and you are close enough to tap on their passenger window to say WTF. I know that bikes may sound cheap but the fact that you are 2-up'ing plus gear, your gas milleage is not going to be as good as you think, it may even be similar to modern small car. I haven't had experience 2-uping with that particular bike that you mentioned, however I would believe that a 650cc bike might be underpowered for what you have in mind (again it depends on how much you and the mrs and your gear weigh).
Although the initial car investment might seem more expensive, you have to consider you and your wife, head to toe in gear, rain gear, summer gear, saddle bags etc.. that the expenses might be closer than you think and it might not be worth it if you end up hating the bike. One other thing to consider is that you won't be using it for half the year, but still paying insurance for it.
Hopefully I haven't completely turned you off motorcycling, I just want you to be realistic about your choice. It can bring you some of the best experiences of your lives and take you to places and roads that have scenery that are beyond words which just can't be appreciated in a cage.
Unfortunately I don't think you will be able to make the decision without actually trying a real season of riding which might make this a mute argument if you are unable to come up with the cash.
However if you do decide to ride, welcome to the community..... one of us... one of us...
 
Motorcycling isn't for everyone. If you are planning on riding that far, then you would have to be doing it because you love to ride and not because your saving some $ in gas. You will get tired of carrying all your stuff, tired of getting caught in rain, tired of bad roads, tired of not having all the comforts like heating/AC, wipers, and everything else you get in a car. I can tell you this....I have been riding a long time, have done week long rides, but I'm not sure I would want to take off across the country on a bike to live like that for a month, especially two up and all the luggage that would go with the extra person.

It is more dangerous than cars. With some riders they are their own biggest enemy. Other riders are aware enough of what is going on around them and know what to watch out for to avoid being in a situation where they could be in an accident. Yes, sand in a corner on a cliff edge with only a guardrail and the truck coming the other way is half in your lane could make for a bad day. Everybody goes down sometime, hopefully that's not the spot.

Best thing to do is get a bike, write your M1 and ride. See if you even like it.

EDIT: Just wanted to add.....doubling the sign coming into corners for safety is BS!
 
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Downtown = Stupid cab drivers, jay walkers, streetcar rails, traffic, and more traffic?

I'd say, it's best to get a Vespa for downtown. QEW and Gardiner is a ***** so you're going 2km/h. But then again, the motorcycle gets you to farther places on highways.
 
take a trip to any Asian country and ask yourself how do these people ride without gears and what happens when they crash? You'll see them zig zagging all over the place and riding against traffic but they won't crash. The answer is simple they respect each other mentally.

I consider myself an avid all season rider that have travelled across Canada and riding is not as dangerous as most make it out to be. I agree with Turbodish it's all dependant on the rider. If you ride aggresively and fast you increase your chances of something bad happening but if you ride with patience and constantly aware of your surroundings and try to increase your safety bubbles and try to avoid riding in car's and truck's blind spots you drasticallly reduce your chances of something bad happening.

Patience is all I can reiterate when riding anything 2 wheels. You can still ride aggresively but have the patience to see that window of opportunity.
 
Hahahah this guy almost writes a book on weather he should start riding or not, is this for real? It's gotta be some kind of a joke. That's some funny **** right there.
 
Any doubts climb into bed and put the covers over your head...all will be good then.
 
turbodish said:
Regardless of what anyone may try to convince you of about cars and trucks wanting to kill all motorcycle riders, your chances of avoiding a crash rest mostly in your own hands. I've got over 35 years of riding with no crashes over many many miles highway, city and back roads. There are also others here have much more than that, so it is possible to survive motorcycle riding without even a scratch.

The majority of rider fatalities this year occurred mostly as a result of the rider losing control. In many cases there were no other vehicles involved at all as the motorcycle left the road. In other crashes, other vehicles got involved only after the motorcycle rider had lost control and crashed into them.

Yes, there were a few cases of left-turning cars and trucks turning in front of an approaching motorcycle that was doing everything right and travelling at reasonable speeds, but for the most part the majority of riders that died in crashes went down mostly due to their own riding errors or outright misbehaviour, big or small. Running off the road only to come to a hard stop against a ditch, tree, fence, guard rail, culvert, often on curves. Running in to the BACK of other vehicles. Riding impaired. Riding at speeds markedly faster than surrounding traffic. Riding stupid.

Most of these are easily avoidable if you are smart and mature enough to do so. On the other hand, if you want to treat your bike riding as if it's supposed to be like a carnival thrill ride...

If you're worried about risk of major hurt, start by looking at your (and your wife's) driving records in your cars so far. If that record is relatively free of accidents regardless of fault and regardless of severity, then you may be good candidates for a career of safe riding. The reason I say "regardless of fault or severity" is because on a bike, a rider in a crash is much more likely to be injured regardless of fault and regardless of severity of crash.

If your prior defensive driving skills and prudence are such that you have avoided not only causing an accident yourself but also avoided potential crashes caused by others, then you're in a much better place to start riding than many others on the road. On the other hand, if you're already crash magnets in your cars, then maybe a "motorcycle lifestyle" may not be the ideal thing for you.
Click to expand...

This was a great post and couldn't have said it any better....

I finally went out and got my license this year as well (Currently have my M2) and I have been having loads of fun on my Ninja 250. I try to be aware of my surroundings at all times, try to anticipate what others could do around you while riding and so far I have been good. As others have suggested, if it does interest you, take the course and then you will at least start to gauge whether it is for you or not. And in the future if you and your wife enjoy taking long drives, then switching to long rides on cruisers or touring motorcycles would benefit you more than a Kawasaki Versys 650, in my opinion. Much more visible on the roads to start.
 
Mightymouse said:
Hi Nitromethane1261,
First off I would applaud your maturity in deciding to research and have all the facts before determining if being a motorcyclist is something you really want to get into. Too many people get caught up in the "coolness" of it and unfortunately end up getting a rude wake up call.
Here's my 2 cents.
After reading your post my initial reaction was that this person doesn't really want to ride but is looking at it as a cheaper form of transportation. If gas prices were lower and you didn't have that lower paying job then you and your wife would still be taking those future trips on 4 wheels and not 2. Maybe you have always wanted to ride, but based on your post I'm assuming you wouldn't even be thinking about it now if things were different.
With that said, riding is something I believe you should want to do not because you have to but because you want to. There are too many inherent risks with riding that if you don't enjoy it enough, you will just be wasting your time and in a year or so get out of it. To believe that you will be a fair weather rider and never have to deal with rain or night time riding is unrealistic, unless you plan on only taking short road trips in a localized area and following the weather channel like a teenage girl follows 90210.
All of the concerns that your wife has are valid and do happen, your bike will lose traction crossing the painted lane markers but so does your car, its just more apparent on your bike, if its been lightly raining and the paint is thick enough, when your tire goes over it will slip, as long as your aren't doing something stupid at that time it shouldn't be an issue. Considering the temperment that you both seem to have I wouldn't worry about the majority of the problems she might come across in her research. However accidents happen and you have to understand that you are in a vehicle that is less visible to traffic, less protected from the traffic and has less traction than a car and is more stable the faster you go. In terms of the turn speeds, I've never taken a corner at the posted speed and felt like it wasn't safe, its all a matter of matching the lean/turn to your speed and the radius of the corner.
Going back to the main reason you want the bike (cost) I think it would be more beneficial to be purchasing a small car (GASP). I know you mentioned that your wife doesn't feel safe in cars but I seriously doubt she is going to feel safer on the back of a bike going 120 passing 3 feet from a Semi tractor trailer on the 401. Or the first time someone does a lane change without a shoulder check and you are close enough to tap on their passenger window to say WTF. I know that bikes may sound cheap but the fact that you are 2-up'ing plus gear, your gas milleage is not going to be as good as you think, it may even be similar to modern small car. I haven't had experience 2-uping with that particular bike that you mentioned, however I would believe that a 650cc bike might be underpowered for what you have in mind (again it depends on how much you and the mrs and your gear weigh).
Although the initial car investment might seem more expensive, you have to consider you and your wife, head to toe in gear, rain gear, summer gear, saddle bags etc.. that the expenses might be closer than you think and it might not be worth it if you end up hating the bike. One other thing to consider is that you won't be using it for half the year, but still paying insurance for it.
Hopefully I haven't completely turned you off motorcycling, I just want you to be realistic about your choice. It can bring you some of the best experiences of your lives and take you to places and roads that have scenery that are beyond words which just can't be appreciated in a cage.
Unfortunately I don't think you will be able to make the decision without actually trying a real season of riding which might make this a mute argument if you are unable to come up with the cash.
However if you do decide to ride, welcome to the community..... one of us... one of us...
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Aside from posts 29, 30 and 31 there is some really great advice here.

I commend you for being so mature and weighing the risks before you make a commitment. If my sole purpose was to commute to and from work in the downtown core I would have many of the same concerns. Spend the next few days paying extra attention to the commuters and pedestrians you share the road with and how bad the habits are. Now factor in that you don't have that protective cage around you and ask yourself if you still want to share the roads under those conditions.

You have to want to ride for the reason of the enjoyment that being on two wheels will bring you. If all else sucks the joy out of riding then there really isn't a reason for you to ride. Whatever you choose, welcome to GTAM and stay safe.
 
Have your wife take the course as well; she'll have a much better appreciation for biking and may find, like my wife, that she loves it and gets her own bike!

Dave
 
+1 on the good advice here.
For my 2cents, I'd suggest that when you do get a bike, don't get a bike that your average thief would not want to steal. Something used, dirty and unpopular would be your best bet to avoid finding your parking spot empty one morning.
 
Thank you to all those that gave your insights, advice, and experiences - it was very helpful and much appreciated!

It appears that, even with a "book length" post, I still managed to omit a few details - sometimes forum posts are just long :-P

We do have metropasses, so in-city riding isn't a priority. It's more about being able to get out of the city to do things that we used to not worry about. But now running an errand in Pickering becomes a "well, do we wanna spend $40 in gas to go out to Pickering and back?" issue.

That said - while the idea of riding was spawned by the financial incentive - it is the joy and experience of powersports that kept us interested. While I may sound like an over-thinking overly cautious individual, that was not always the case (although I may analyze things more than many lol).

I am a car guy - I've built and raced cars with 600-800+ hp (with nice 12 point roll cages!), driven cars on the street that people would not consider "streetable," but my passion for cars made me take the hit on comfort and ease of driving to be able to drive the car that performed the way I wanted it to on the track. I have owned Jet Ski's, and used to ride 50km/day on a (pedal powered) road bike in all kinds of traffic conditions.

My wife had ridden horses since she was 5 years old, and has broken every bone in her body getting thrown off horses that wouldn't jump over a jump, that would take off on her because they were ex-race horses that suddenly took off if they walked between 2 trees on a trail because they thought it was the starting gate. She has been terrified of horses her whole life, but her love of horses overpowered her fear of them, so she put on her body protectors and helmet and rode like the best of them.

I fully understand the concept of the advantages outweighing the risk - but both our mentalities have changed drastically now that we have more responsibility and have gotten a few years older, and hopefully wiser. Now - if I kill myself on a bike, I need to consider what happens to my wife. She will be heartbroken, she will feel responsible because she's the one that planted the motorcycle seed, she will have an immense financial burden, so life insurance would be a must for us, and she will spend her whole life regretting the decision to ride a motorcycle, because she would rather have me than have the motorcycle. Likewise, I have to think of those things from the opposite perspective too.

It's easy to shrug off, and it's especially difficult to get objective input from the Motorcycle community - because realistically, everyone on this forum has looked at the pro's and con's in some way, and decided that it is worth the risk. So, I really appreciate those that have taken the time to relay their personal experiences and their personal perspectives.

I think we will shelf the riding idea for this season, and then if next spring we are still interested in riding, we'll go to RTI and get the ball rolling. If we've forgotten about it by spring, then it wasn't meant to be.

Thanks again! I'll be lurking around, continue reading comments on this thread, and reading what I can on the rest of the forum :-)
 
Well that paints a slightly different picture than what I got from your original post.

You will definitely enjoy motorcycling. Yes, the risks are greater but one common theme you are likely to find in all those crashes you read about, is that maybe 90% of riders weren't aware of the particular risk they were taking in the situation that they happened to be in. So already you are gaining an advantage over them by learning about slick painted lines in the wet, surprise gravel on the road, etc...

Also, the reports you are reading about are probably all the most extreme outcomes. There are 100x more crashes than that with nothing more than just bruised egos, maybe a rash or bruise. The kind of outcomes that don't make it onto the internet. It is safe to assume that you will crash once (though not everybody does) and that you will be OK. Just wear as much protection as you are comfortable with and don't do anything stupid.

Yes, you may also die.

Your concern for the effects your death would have on your wife is one of the many little things that will help keep you alive. Obey your fear, and if that means not riding a motorcycle then so be it.
 
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I think the best advice in the entire thread was "take the course, *with* your wife, then decide". Nothing like a little bit of experience (albeit in the confines of a closed lot) to give some perspective. And if you don't get the "bug", then you're out a few hundred dollars, no harm no foul.
 
Did you consider the option of purchasing a safe, reliable, fuel efficient vehicle? There are many of those options available out there.
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