unions are for show only,unifor is my union and they do nothing for its members,the union has buckled under to big business IMO,they think because they have a huge membership it will be good for the workers,what this does is make the execs fatter than they are now,I have been a union member for 32 years and have seen the useless people join the union ranks because they cant do a days work,rant over thanks.
Unifor vote for Toyota
- Thread starter Nick_f
- Start date
Unions only have a future if they can offer a value-added proposition (which is somewhat the case for some - not all - construction trades). If all they are going to do is act like leeches and help to drive up costs for the companies that they "serve", their only function will be to continue to drive manufacturing overseas and/or drive companies bankrupt. The UAW, formerly CAW and now Unifor, have a history of being leeches. I'm not even sure they know the meaning of "value-added". The Toyota workers would be nuts to allow Unifor in.
Is it a union job or no??
Its not really auto unions that are making life suck for the rest of us, it's healthcare and police associations and municipal workers that are paid directly out of our pocket, not an auto union that is indirectly funded. I can choose not to buy a car, I need my garbage picked up. I guess they have their place, I've paid dues twice but never saw any tangible benefit.
Im neither for nor against unions. Although I am not a fan of the idea of "first hired, first promoted" idea.
scratch that...
I HATE public sector unions. There usually isn't a need for them and the "job for life" bull drives me nuts.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
scratch that...
I HATE public sector unions. There usually isn't a need for them and the "job for life" bull drives me nuts.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
I used my friends new work situation as a real world example of how we are not past the need for unions. So no.
Totally agree .... decades ago when there were safety issues at work sites and pay was an utter crap, maybe ... but now? I cannot comprehend why any union should exist, mainly in environment like auto-manufacturing. Instead of working with them they work against them ... It's sad that the guy who gets paid 50$/hr to put cars together doesn't see through the smoke screens of the union comrades.
Ok well my counter point is that he has been there for only one pay period. If he was hired as a general labourer then his employer does even know if he knows which way to turn a wrench.
In a union job he might get paid more but so would the useless guy. Ideally his hard work and competence would be recognized and his pay would adjust accordingly. After only one pay period you can't really draw any conclusions.
Oh, the probation period. He'll be lucky to see $15hr in 2 yrs. The company steadies who know what they're doing don't make over $18. If this is a reflection of the construction/reno industry as a whole, that it's so cut throat in quoting jobs, that is scary. Building stuff, fixing stuff is what the real world is made of. These are the tangibles of real life. Where's the value?
if he's actually handy and a clever fellow, hang out a shingle and be the renovator. If you can return a phone call and start and finish on time you can make a very comfortable income in contracting.
$15-18 an hr is not good money for a guy that is skilled with tools. If he was out of work for 2 yrs maybe he's not that motivated.
$15-18 an hr is not good money for a guy that is skilled with tools. If he was out of work for 2 yrs maybe he's not that motivated.
Well, that sucks.
I spent some time working at General Dynamics as a contract worker in an engineering position. It's sad that the job market is so flooded with applicants that many large companies can get away with treating professional hard working employees like dirt. I was no longer willing to do it, but I know I had nothing to bargain with because there are/were thousands of others who would.
Well, you're right. I could write a couple pages on his "situation" but I don't think I should do that. He's a sober, plugged in, mechanically inclined mensch. He's never asked to much from life but he's still friends with everybody he's ever met more than twice. Some people are just different.
Last edited:
SlowMo
Well-known member
Ever consider why GM just about folded?
One worker, supporting 3 people who have full benefits.
Benefits in the USA cost GM approximately $25K per year per person. So unless that 1 worker was producing their wage ($45K or so) plus $75K to cover retirees (with union mandated benefits for life) there's no possible way they were going to end up breaking anywhere near even.
Unions had their place and time, but in certain industries, they're simply whore mongers.
XenoVibe
Well-known member
They should've just taken over GM plant and hired on people with no unions for less than their previous wage. I don't care as it doesn't really effect me but they should at least do something about that state.
i agree unions have become their own bureaucracy and are far from perfect but they still have a place. if companies and government had their way a lot of people would be working for very low wages, and no pensions. it's not reasonable to expect everyone to be a business owner either. you have to remember that collective bargaining is just that..collective. meaning employers agreed to enter into a legal contract knowing what was on the table. i don't think it can be all put on unions as being the problem for a bad bottom line. poor business models haven't helped a lot of these firms. if i remember correctly GM never made the contributions they were supposed to which was a big reason for the huge costs and deficit associated with the pension plan.
Last edited:
That's always the get out of jail free card in these arguements. Couldn't make the football team? Start your own team.
Strikes have a way of making the business loose a lot of money rather quickly......not really collective bargaining.
One of the things that irks me about unions is that the unionization process appears to be a one-way street. Once a plant gets unionized, it is near impossible to revert to being non-union. If the union is going to arrange for repeated votes to get IN (UAW has tried this in the US many times) then there should be equally many opportunities once the union is in, for the workers to kick them OUT. If the union gets in, and the workers determine that it was not a worthwhile exercise, they should have the opportunity to vote them out. I recognize that this process probably does exist in some way, but it never happens.
Every renewal of the collective agreement should coincide with a vote whether to keep the union or not ... and this should be an independently-audited secret ballot; no strong-arm tactics ...
Every renewal of the collective agreement should coincide with a vote whether to keep the union or not ... and this should be an independently-audited secret ballot; no strong-arm tactics ...
So now there aren't safety issues in the workplace?
I'm part of a Union and see the leeches and people who don't want to work but most of the people just want to work and get the job done without getting hurt and doing it in a reasonable amount of time. We're constantly waiting for material and we've had supervisors that have no clue how to do our job tell us it shouldn't take the time it does. Most of the problem is the company being completly disorganized, not the workers slacking off.
We were on strike last year for the first time in 27 years. If we didn't strike we would have been locked out the next day. Nobody knows the actual reason for the strike but the company made it seem like they wanted our seniority, we know there were other reasons and our pay was not one.
The company doesn't give two ***** about our well being as long as it doesn't cost them anything and there's no wsib claims. Without the union there'd be many more injuries and unsafe work environments.
