Just curious on your opinion of why the cops were there in the first place? Innocent, unarmed kid just minding his own business? Police do a job that most people would not even consider trying out for a day so I have loads of respect for them (unlike police bashers like yourself who think that every time someone gets shot, the officer should be fired and hung at sunset). You WERE NOT there and should allow the justice system to work through the real evidence not the media hype around it. If you are being robbed or assaulted, I bet you will call them though? Aren't you worried about them shooting you by mistake? By the way, I do remember G20, most intelligent people (including residents) left for the summit and did NOT purposely head down there looking for trouble. JMHO!
ttc special constable abuse
- Thread starter LiNK666
- Start date
In Ferguson and throughout the US the mob convicted the cop involved in the shooting and would have lynched him if they had the opportunity to do so. They did so based solely on media reports and social media protests distributing questionable and untested witness accounts. They did not consider any evidence but those definitive "proofs" disseminated over and over again in the regular and social media. They did not consider any objective forensics analysis at all.
Months later after exhaustive forensics analysis and after interviewing and re-interviewing dozens of eyewitnesses, it turns out that the "hands-up don't shoot" scenario being thrown about as absolute fact by outraged activists in Ferguson was anything but. Read the DoJ report yourself, specifically the witness and forensics accounts. The DoJ are hardly the lapdogs of the Ferguson cops. http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf
The Toronto shooting looks bad at first glance, as did the Ferguson shooting. The Ferguson shooting turned out to be be something completely different than was originally reported all over. I'm not saying that the Toronto shooting will turn out the same way, but just like Ferguson, the media and especially the social media is working with only part of the story at most.
The other part, detailed forensics and any defence mounted by the accused, has not been heard or tested in court. I for one would like to hear the other side of the story before passing my personal verdict. Maybe that will bring out some scenario that you are incapable of or simply just not disposed to thinking about.
You can hang the cop now if you want just as many here are hanging the TTC cops in the current video based on half the story, but that isn't justice.
ashkan
Banned
First of all, "most intelligent people" is your opinion and assumption. I seem to think those who are active in their society, aware of the policies and stand up to undemocratic changes that harm most people and benefits corporate fat cats are the intelligent people. Those who take time and put effort in making change. By your definition, those who marches with Dr. King were also breaking the law of their time. guess they were also looking for trouble? Yet its those activists that chnage social wrongs and hold governments accountable. In contrast, i think those who sit on thier couches with a beer and watch football all day, unaware of anything thats happening around the, the sheeple, are not only not intelligent, but a part of the herd that work, pay theirtaxes and accepr the statue quo no matter how unfair and unjust it is. If everyone was like that, we would still have a monarchy here with a bunch of slaves.
Thats my comment on your "intelligent people" commment.
More importantnly, i never said the cops were there for no reason or that he didnt do anything wrong. of course he did. But at the point of shooting and for minutes before that (which is all on video from different angles), the kid (again at that point) posed NO THREAT to anyone. He was contained, surrounded and there was absolutely zeroo need to shoot him. Let alone 9 times!!!! They shot him 9 times at a point that he again, posed no threat to anyone! Thats cold murder man. And no, i wasnt there, but i have eyes and there are videos covering the entire incident from different angles and i can see that he did not even charge the cops (even if he did, taze him, he had a knife not a gun), but he didnt even chrage them. He was standing in there and the guy shot him, not even once, 9 times. It really cant be more clear than that.
And no, im not a cop hater, i have cop friends and ive had many good interactions with many polite and helpful officers. But just as there are good and bad people, there are good and bad officers. My problem is that the officers almost NEVER get convicted for any wrong doing. When the verdict is controlled and the sentence comes from people who have their hands in the same pockets that thos very cops protect, i dont expect much else.
I am howver baffled that even in such a clear case where he was murdered while posing no threat, people still try to justify the cop's action just because of their pure love and biase. Forget your bias and ill forget mine. Take a look at the footage again and again and maybe youll se my point.
It's all in the footage so it's clearly obvious what happened, huh? Just like it was clearly obvious what happened in Ferguson, huh? So, no need for a trial, huh?
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ashkan
Banned
No footage on Furgeson but if there is, id like to see it. This one is all in the footage and yes, there is absolutely a need fro trial. While ii think he is guilty, i defend the notion of innocent till proven guilty. My issue is that we have a corrupt system where those close to power never get what they deserve. There have been investigations into police brutality and excessive use of force both in Canada and States and in almost every single case, somehow and sepite all contrary evidance, the jury somehow finds the cop innocent of all wrong doing. And even if you were to say Furgeso is somewhat vague, the Toronto case couldnt be more clear as there is in fact footage of the entire event. I hope the cop gets what he deserves and if somehow there is some magical evidance that would render the video untrue, then sure, let him off the hook. But again, i cant see any scenario that shooting that kid 9 times can be justified. Please chime in if you know of one.
There was complete video coverage of the incident in Ferguson?
What people seem to be leaving out about Ferguson is that the riots were not really about Michael Brown it was just the boiling point after years of dealing with a confirmed racist police force that would harass and arrest black people for trivial matters to extort money with bogus charges to pay for their budgets. Just read the AG's document. It wasn't a stretch to think that maybe a clearly racist police force might have shot an unarmed black kid. Police created that situation and the evidence is there to back up why the entire police force should be disbanded.
There is a serious problem when police are told "If you are in fear then shoot" and then you have a police force who find interactions with black people 'fearful'. See how this is a recipe for disaster?
ashkan
Banned
To add to your point, there was a federal investigation into Furgeson police department which found an uncanny amount of racism. I dont think all black people (or anyone) are innocent and i also dont think all cops are psychotic murderers. But there is clear evidance that there is a miuse of power and yet, people want to close their eyes to all the evidance, no matter how clear and in what scale, but they want to defend the very forces who oppress them. Some will only realyze the systematic oppression of people and the mass corruption of this so called justice system, when something happens to them. Only then they see whats really going on.
It's an infant like part of human psyche to look up to authority where in reality, infants are supposed to grow up and question authority and hold them accountable.
GateKeeper
Well-known member
G20....yes nothing but good people there....
Yup...I've had that discussion with a few acquaintances that went to the G20 protests....they complained about how the cops were treating everyone and herding into designated areas...I asked them why they went if they knew that there were going to be problems, and that there was opportunity for peaceful protest in other areas...no answer except 'Cause we leave in a Cop state where they need to be all brought to justice'...
As for the situation with the TTC it's hard to make a call as to see what happened to cause all of this...but let's just say that the son doesn't look to be 100% innocent here. Seeing the guy punching the TTC constable and then having him cry like a girl for getting punched back...and calling out 'I didn't do anything, I didn't do anything' is ******** and I hope he gets charged and convicted for something.
Of course your going to post pictures of the small group of people causing trouble instead of the thousands who were protesting in a peaceful manor about legitimate issues. Not to mention those who were in the legal designated protest area at queens park were marched on and beaten without doing a thing wrong.
ashkan
Banned
Its easy to chery pick a bunch of pircutes for either sides of the argument isnt it?
But even if there were a few looters out of thousands who attended, what damage did they casue? A few damaged cruisers and a few broken store fronts? Sure, and i disagree with that. But lets look at the other side. These are people with almost no power, spray painting the crusiers and protesting a summit that involves world economic powers that guess what? Kill millions every year with policies that cause world hunger, wars, unthinkable misdistribution of wealth, corportae rights over people's rights. These are the people who kill millions in wars in just a decade. So im sure you can excuse a few painted cruisers in response to millions dead from war and hunger.
And what other choise do we have?? If we dont protest (not loot but protest) how else are we ever going to bring change to these corporate ran governments who dont give a single F about us and are there to protect the rights of these industries? And of course their guard dogs that beat and shoot anyone who disagrees.
But even if there were a few looters out of thousands who attended, what damage did they casue? A few damaged cruisers and a few broken store fronts? Sure, and i disagree with that. But lets look at the other side. These are people with almost no power, spray painting the crusiers and protesting a summit that involves world economic powers that guess what? Kill millions every year with policies that cause world hunger, wars, unthinkable misdistribution of wealth, corportae rights over people's rights. These are the people who kill millions in wars in just a decade. So im sure you can excuse a few painted cruisers in response to millions dead from war and hunger.
And what other choise do we have?? If we dont protest (not loot but protest) how else are we ever going to bring change to these corporate ran governments who dont give a single F about us and are there to protect the rights of these industries? And of course their guard dogs that beat and shoot anyone who disagrees.
GateKeeper
Well-known member
Really, so we should just let the looters do as they please...tell that to the store owners who had to get things fixed and or replaced, tell that to the tax payer that now has to foot the bill for the damage to the cruisers and other public property.
Protest, but do it in a peaceful manner, get out of line and hey you get what you get....
I'd hate to see this world if we did not have wars, we would be so far behind in technology, and many other things, as well as very over populated, and then you would see hunger, over crowding, mayhem and so on......
If the governments as you say don't give a F about us, how is it we have what we have, and do as we do, I am sure someone out does give a F about us
But I look at it this way, most of this is way above my pay grade as I am sure it's above yours and we will never know the true answer to the questions.....
Your last statement has me confused, as I don't recall anyone being shot at the G20, and if the cops ran around and beat and shot anyone, I am sure there would be a crap load more dead in the streets....on a day to day basis.....
As for the 2 that got beat by the TTC guys, well so far everything I have seen or read, even their own interviews ( the father and son) just shows to me they were in the wrong and they knew it......now they want sympathy......
Protest, but do it in a peaceful manner, get out of line and hey you get what you get....
I'd hate to see this world if we did not have wars, we would be so far behind in technology, and many other things, as well as very over populated, and then you would see hunger, over crowding, mayhem and so on......
If the governments as you say don't give a F about us, how is it we have what we have, and do as we do, I am sure someone out does give a F about us
But I look at it this way, most of this is way above my pay grade as I am sure it's above yours and we will never know the true answer to the questions.....
Your last statement has me confused, as I don't recall anyone being shot at the G20, and if the cops ran around and beat and shot anyone, I am sure there would be a crap load more dead in the streets....on a day to day basis.....
As for the 2 that got beat by the TTC guys, well so far everything I have seen or read, even their own interviews ( the father and son) just shows to me they were in the wrong and they knew it......now they want sympathy......
ashkan
Banned
I cant say much else after that comment. We are too far apart on this.
Historically speaking he's correct tho war drive technological advancement and social change (not always positive not always negative). They have almost always had a positive global impact in the long run. As distasteful as that idea may seem its not untrue.
GateKeeper
Well-known member
Well unfortunately history repeats itself, and wars for the foreseeable future will be a part of our lives........as I am sure they will be around far longer than you and I will be walking this earth....
and this is not due to governments, or police, but just the way humans are........unfortunate, but true.....
Prime example, of this, is the war in the former Yugoslavia, after it's end and all that had to be rebuilt and redone, Croatia now has one of the most advanced communications systems in the world, small villages of 50 or less people have internet service that is way faster and way cheaper than the best crap we get here from Bell or Rogers for our average citizen....
and this is not due to governments, or police, but just the way humans are........unfortunate, but true.....
Prime example, of this, is the war in the former Yugoslavia, after it's end and all that had to be rebuilt and redone, Croatia now has one of the most advanced communications systems in the world, small villages of 50 or less people have internet service that is way faster and way cheaper than the best crap we get here from Bell or Rogers for our average citizen....
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So if I see it from your angle, I should go to all political gatherings, loot, burn vehicles, damage private citizens businesses (and livelihood) and call it being a social activist? WOW! Did you ride your unicorn down or just float in on the rays of sunshine? Don't like what the politicians are doing or the police? Are you one of the 40% of the population who BOTHER to vote? If not, sit down and shut up! I can be actively involved in affecting changes in other ways that do not include tramping on everyone else's rights and freedoms. People have fought and sacrificed their lives so that we could enjoy the rights and freedoms we enjoy in this country NOT so people can just participate in "protests" that involve violence and destruction.
You are a believer in "innocent till proven guilty"? Does this apply to only "social activists" or do police officers get this right as well?
As for the video evidence that you speak of? Did you personally film it? No? I guess everything you see on the inter web is real and true? Good luck with your social activism and please stay away from my neighbourhood as we do have police here to enforce the laws (even the ones YOU do not agree with).
You are a believer in "innocent till proven guilty"? Does this apply to only "social activists" or do police officers get this right as well?
As for the video evidence that you speak of? Did you personally film it? No? I guess everything you see on the inter web is real and true? Good luck with your social activism and please stay away from my neighbourhood as we do have police here to enforce the laws (even the ones YOU do not agree with).
ashkan
Banned
The hell is your problem dude. If you cant have a polite and civil conversation, dont have one in a forum where people are clearly not all like you! Seems to be you would be the one lootnig and burning everything with that kinda attitude! And yes i did vote and no i didnt ride a unicorn. Im one of those who do give a damn and do put my time and effort into changing policies while you sit on your *** and criticize those who dont!
And i dont believe in a court system that always finds every polive officer innocent. If that doesnt raise a red flag for you, then maybe youre just too easily brainwashed. I like to ask questions.
And if you cant keep a polite conversation, im just not gonna reply anymore because clearly, when you run out of facts, you start getting angry. Its like playing chess with a pigeon at this point!
He was hardly rude now your just Tone trolling and this is coming from someone sympathetic to your position.
ashkan
Banned
"Are you one of the 40% of the population who BOTHER to vote? If not, sit down and shut up"
Maybe this is a normal tone of debate for you but if you ever took a rhetoric class(and maybe you did, i dont know), you'd know that making an argument personal and making personal attacks is a rhetorical fallacy. In any debate, getting angry and making disrespectful comments is a sign of your weak argument. Also, i tend to keep a polite tone because that's how i debate. Yelling and screaming and using language like that has no room in a proper debate. Its more fitting of a bar brawl.
But hey, to each their own i guess.
