Trial & Error - Playing with my CBR600RRA suspension | GTAMotorcycle.com

Trial & Error - Playing with my CBR600RRA suspension

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dragenn

Well-known member
After landing me a cbr600RRA and dying to get more grip out of the bike. I opted to learn my own suspension so l could set it , cause who doesnt like to tinker with their bikes. I hope this can serve as some inspiration to others to learn how to set their own suspension with some help from other community members.

Also because the style of forums l can always come back to this thread, to track my changes. Except Everyone can track and help me out as well.

After reading up for the couple of weeks, l decide to start get my hands dirty and set my suspension myself. Starting out here's my list of problems l noticed right away, and my assumptions to fix them ). Im around 205 with gear, and my riding style is quite spirited but not in excess. I break heavy, engine break quite a bit, and LOVE MY CORNERS.


  • bouncy ( more so on the front ) when it lands ( possible too little rebound )
  • front feel washed on corner entry, lots of over steering ( possible too little rebound & compression )
  • heavy break diving ( not enough preload, possibly some more compression dampening )
  • too much rear squatting under acceleration ( rear compression dampening ?!?!? )
  • front pops out after heavy braking
So with these few items, l went into some research and decided to change only the FRONT FORKS

  • stiffen the preload by going to full stiff and going 7 turns out. ( not sure l just reset it )
  • compression dampening to 2.5 turn ( from 1 turn )
  • rebound 2 turns ( from 1 turn )
With these setting my first ride l noticed

  • Way more feedback from the ground, but adversely too stiff for street. Better fitted fir super aggressive riding/ track style
  • brake diving is is wayyy less, and pop up is much more control. Ill be much more comfortable breaking then entering a corner

I ALMOSt FORGOT TO MENTION. THE TIRES ARE OEM brigdestone on the front, 2CT on the back ( l bought it used that way ). Metzeler M5 on the way. The washed front could come from the crappy front tire struggling to grip from the 2CT on the back
 
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So what is the point of this thread?

You don't seem to know your starting point for spring preload so the final number doesn't really mean anything. You didn't even specify if you're talking about front or rear values. Typically damping (not dampening) settings are expressed in "clicks" not turns.

As a novice tuner you're not qualified to give advice on suspension tuning. Sorry, I'm not trying to be mean but even being good (not great) at suspension tuning takes A LOT of knowledge and experience.
 
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The first thing to do is STOP fiddling with stuff till you have a clue.

Then set the SAG, front and rear.
Then spend more time than you have reading about motorcycle suspension on the interweb.

You are lacking in requisite knowledge to do what you want to do.
The PRUDENT thing to do would be get your suspension set up by someone that knows what they're doing so you have a basic reference point. (I am thinking more John Sheppard than Rider's Choice).
 
The point wasnt to give advice, but to chronicle my efforts, and to use this thread as my reference point instead of pen and paper. I know lm not a suspension expert, but backing off is just isnt part of my mindset. The idea is for members with more know how to provide guidance, as oppose to a deterrence.

BTW, thanks for the spelling correction. I always make that mistake. As more members learn to understand suspension there will be more knowledge transfer and expertise pass back and forth. This is the internet age, learn to evolve or go extinct. This thread isnt for attention like the typical "GENERAL THREAD," it actually a call for help, and some mentoring. I'll edit the original post to specify ive only changed the front forks

As for front preload, i pressume , one fork was 5 turns from full soft, the other was 7 turns from full soft ( yes, they were mismatched ).
 
bitzz said:
The first thing to do is STOP fiddling with stuff till you have a clue.

Then set the SAG, front and rear.
Then spend more time than you have reading about motorcycle suspension on the interweb.

You are lacking in requisite knowledge to do what you want to do.
The PRUDENT thing to do would be get your suspension set up by someone that knows what they're doing so you have a basic reference point. (I am thinking more John Sheppard than Rider's Choice).
Click to expand...

Why start down that road... THEN ticker with it. I can only make it worst from a professional setup. If all else fails l have to option to go get it properly set. I rather learn first, because THAT process is priceless. Even if l fail miserably ill have some experience and knowledge before give in. Also l havent even broken in my driving style. Its a new bike to me ( 1 month ), so lm more then happy to take it easy and figure some things out.

l still have to figure out to properly set my SAG front and back. More trail and error, on its way
 
Right off the top; YOU DO NOT SET PRELOAD USING THE CLICKERS.
You do not what the components are and what they do.

The reason I suggest you get it set up by someone that knows what they are doing is you, at this time, do not know what the correct setup should feel like. You're taking shots in the dark. You don't know WHAT you're supposed to be aiming for.
You are probably, at this minute, so far out in left field you cannot see the game and there is NO WAY on gods green earth you're going to make it work right. You have no frame of reference as to what is "RIGHT".
It is quite possible that if you "fail miserably", the first corner you will go down and ruin a bunch of nice, expensive body work.
 
dragenn said:
The point wasnt to give advice, but to chronicle my efforts, and to use this thread as my reference point instead of pen and paper. I know lm not a suspension expert, but backing off is just isnt part of my mindset. The idea is for members with more know how to provide guidance, as oppose to a deterrence.

BTW, thanks for the spelling correction. I always make that mistake. As more members learn to understand suspension there will be more knowledge transfer and expertise pass back and forth. This is the internet age, learn to evolve or go extinct. This thread isnt for attention like the typical "GENERAL THREAD," it actually a call for help, and some mentoring. I'll edit the original post to specify ive only changed the front forks

As for front preload, i pressume , one fork was 5 turns from full soft, the other was 7 turns from full soft ( yes, they were mismatched ).
Click to expand...

I don't believe you.

- If you wanted something for your own purposes you'd have a notebook you could refer to at any time. Any competitive racer has a suspenion notebook to track suspension changes. This thread won't help you if you're up in Muskoka trying to fiddle with your bike.

- This thread is a bad idea. A poorly set up bike can be dangerous. A thread that allows any e-expert to offer their thoughts/opinions/advice is a recipe for disaster.

- You can't tune a suspension over the internet.

- I probably have some "know how" that would benefit you but I'm not going to offer any beyond what I'm writing right now. You don't know what if anything qualifies me to offer you advice. Further, i don't know you, your riding style, your bike's geometry, what components or spring rates you have ont it, what tires you're riding on or how fast you are. There are so many variables at play that online advice is borderline worthless. Bitzz suggested taking your bike to someone who knows what they're doing (my suggestions would be Ryan Gill or John Sharrard). If you take it to them for a basic set up, thats exactly what it is.. basic. For street riding it should be damn near perfect, but for the racing crowd where tenths of a second count it'll just get you in the ballpark. I made changes after Ryan got me a baseline. Not severe changes, but changes none the less. None of the changes i ever made were random, many questions were asked before i did anything. I had a good idea of how the changes should make the bike react before even riding it. I've read suspension set up books that were quite valuable (Sportbike Suspension Tuning by Andrew Trevitt and the RaceTech suspension bible), and i've learned from people who have forgotten more than i'll ever know about suspension tuning. Nothing I have learned came from trial and error tuning.
 
The mismatched (and probably worn-out) tires will render all your tinkering useless. You cannot properly set up suspension on worn-out tires, nor on mismatched tires.

Trial and error is not the way to do this. You will be chasing your tail forever and will probably NEVER even come CLOSE to a baseline setup done by someone who has a clue.

The correct way to do this is a by-the-numbers sag measurements to get the preload right (NO guessing) and then fine-tune those by methodically investigating what portion of the suspension travel you are actually using and methodically looking after front and rear ride heights to get the anti-squat correct and to get the steering geometry (turn-in feel) correct, and then methodically set up the damping adjustments so that (A) it's balanced front to rear and (B) has the amount of damping in the correct range. Somewhere in the midst of this will come an investigation of spring rates versus oil level in the forks.

Suspension setup in critical applications (roadracing) may be an iterative (repetitive) process but it is as much NOT trial-and-error as possible.

The books referenced above (Sportbike Suspension Tuning, and Race Tech's suspension tuning bible) are both good.
 
If you are determined to go it on your own set the sag. Sag is not trial and error but a number. Get that right before you begin to play with anything else. As others have said there is alot of physics at play. It not a matter to just trail and error.

I would very strongly suggest you do not try to change your rake and trail.
 
oh my lol, OP i hope you know that you're supposed to have a buddy measure how much your suspension compresses when you are sitting on the bike stationary to probably set it up. just playing with the clicks is kinda useless.

make sure both forks have the same settings, otherwise your bike might handle... strangely lol

just pay $70 and have a shop set it up lol
 
Guys, don't discourage the poor guy. He wants to learn and there's nothing wrong with that. However - anyone riding with mismatched tires has a lot to learn before they can move on to becoming a suspension guru. Notice he hasn't even mentioned tire pressures. This could be a really long thread........
 
skapan said:
Guys, don't discourage the poor guy. He wants to learn and there's nothing wrong with that. However - anyone riding with mismatched tires has a lot to learn before they can move on to becoming a suspension guru. Notice he hasn't even mentioned tire pressures. This could be a really long thread........
Click to expand...

Thank you! Thats the type of answer im looking for. Just remember l got the bike that way. Ive already ordered a new set of tires. Otherwise people are reading this too, so it'll be a good reminder of what to look for
 
skapan said:
Guys, don't discourage the poor guy. He wants to learn and there's nothing wrong with that. However - anyone riding with mismatched tires has a lot to learn before they can move on to becoming a suspension guru. Notice he hasn't even mentioned tire pressures. This could be a really long thread........
Click to expand...

Where's a good reference for how to set tire pressure. With some help from some members l managed to set my sag properly.

Just need to figure out the mechanics involved with proper pressure. I'm not new to the concept but the more basic the better.

Also what a good tire pressure sensor and where to get it in the gta for a decent Price. So many to pick from but l can't figure out which is an effective one
 
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dragenn said:
Where's a good reference for how to set tire pressure. With some help from some members l managed to set my sag properly.

Just need to figure out the mechanics involved with proper pressure. I'm not new to the concept but the more basic the better.

Also what a good tire pressure sensor and where to get it in the gta for a decent Price. So many to pick from but l can't figure out which is an effective one
Click to expand...

Recommended pressures can be found online or from a tire vendor. There's no generic recommended psi, all the tires out there have a different psi they work best at. Some gauges are better than others but they're all a little off. Whatever gauge you get take it to a mechanic or someone with a compressor and you'll figure out how much +/- psi your gauge is off.

As far as playing with your suspension I'd take it to someone who knows what they're doing. Personally I love learning about the different components of my bike and how things works. I've downloaded and read all the suspension books out there and I've watched the traxxion dynamics dvd (Suspension for Mortals) . While I came away with a better understanding of how it all works blah blah blah it's still a guessing game..........So I've decided it's best to leave that aspect of my bike alone and let someone with knowledgeable experience deal with it. With that being said at the very least you should be able to set your sag with a proper tutorial in which I recommend the "Suspension for Mortals" DVD.
 
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snowboarder said:
make sure both forks have the same settings, otherwise your bike might handle... strangely lol
Click to expand...


you'd better tell yamaha!

The 2011 Yamaha YZF-R1 Suspension come with a SOQI front forks which use one of the tricks developed for our winning MotoGP® bikes: independent damping. The left fork handles compression damping and the right side handles the rebound damping
Click to expand...
 
When designed to work that way, it can work well.
When you end up with that spec by screwing with the clickers the results may be less than desirable.
 
Where can l pick up a wrench for changing the rear preload. Would l go straight to honda, or is there a shop l can easily go to and one pick up.

The front feels great, l rode all weekend, wrote down all a new set of high and lows that l can now try to fix and hone in on. Im dying to set the rear. I found that my current setting has made me realize l'll need more then one base.

* easy riding/commuting base
* aggressive riding base
* 1+ passenger base
* etc...
( I wont bother with a track base, because that ludicrous. Im getting it set by a pro for something like that )

I wont post what my current setting are since it may inspire other members to set it and ride to the limts, which could be dangerous for lazy/fearless/inexperienced members.

It seems changing one setting will proportionately affect another setting. I dont have the option of independent dampening. Sound interesting but for the street it seems like over kill. I doubt l push the limits on the street. I try to be a safe rider ( key word TRY :p )

What do you guys think, l hope this helps other member going down this road.

( just a note, this isnt the first time lve gone through a full suspension upgrade + tires ( front/back and tuning ). I went all out on my sv650, l know what im looking for but it was done for me the last time. This time im getting my hands dirty. Being able to change my suspension on the fly has opened a whole new world to me. Originally l never touched it and didnt have much options to change. )
 
snowboarder said:
make sure both forks have the same settings, otherwise your bike might handle... strangely lol
Click to expand...

More bad information

you can have different settings per fork for specific tuning reasons.

The are attached by the axle and will not move/operate independently.
 
reciprocity said:
More bad information

you can have different settings per fork for specific tuning reasons.

The are attached by the axle and will not move/operate independently.
Click to expand...

Don't some OEM forks have rebound on one fork and compression on the other? You can even put different springs in each leg to get a specific spring weight. Carry on....
 
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