Track riding miscoception - by street riders

[Venom01]

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How do you know this? that you can ride? that you can hold your own?

Hold your own against who? in what conditions?

You have NO experience so you have no capability to make this kind of statement, you claim not be tooting your own horn, but then you claim "I CAN RIDE and HOLD MY OWN" in the same sentence.

Kinda contradictory I'd say.

I'm getting at the fact that if you go into ANY learning situation with the impression that you already know ANYTHING, you're short changing yourself.

Show up and pretend you don't know anything, you'll find you won't be complaining about the costs of this sport, but thinking in your head "I can't believe the only make me pay $XXX and I don't get thrown in jail for this!"

Well I never complained about price of tracking. That's was another poster. And by hold my own I mean you won't have to look back for me on a ride to make sure I'm still there. So I guess I mean I'm confident enough that I know that ill only improve not start over from scratch again.

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[NightShadow]

http://www.torontomotorsportspark.co...ool_intro.html

SunnyS posted this link up . I did this course for 145 last night (may 22 ). They take you around the course with an instructor at TMP and they show you the racing line and have you follow them around at an easy pace to start off . If you have never been on a track then it is a good way to get to know the track and the line . As we were going around more the instructor would pick up the pace if he saw that you were improving . At the end of the night we got 3 laps in by ourselves .

Vermon01 said it the best - Start small and work your way up - Know your limits - Most peeps can't use there bike to it full abilities

It would be really stupid for a track to just let someone go out and just ride around that has not taken some kind of a track day course . As to a money issue - Nothing is free - Everything costs

This is what I wrote about it

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?139439-TMP-Cayuga-on-a-Cruiser

 

[ZX600]

.... nevermind

 

[reciprocity]

. And by hold my own I mean you won't have to look back for me on a ride to make sure I'm still there.

I personally won't have to look back for you?

Another professional rider won't have to look back for you?

Valentino Rossi won't have to look back for you?

It's pretty difficult to make a blanket statement like this without being, or at least sounding arrogant?


We get back to the fact that street riding is COMPLETELY different than track riding.

at your first trackday, an entry fast group trackday rider(someone with no race experience) will be lapping you at least once per 15 min session.

Add someone with race experience and you'll be getting lapped 2+ times in 15min trackday sessions.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

How do you know this? that you can ride? that you can hold your own?

Hold your own against who? in what conditions?

You have NO experience so you have no capability to make this kind of statement, you claim not be tooting your own horn, but then you claim "I CAN RIDE and HOLD MY OWN" in the same sentence.

Kinda contradictory I'd say.

I'm getting at the fact that if you go into ANY learning situation with the impression that you already know ANYTHING, you're short changing yourself.

Show up and pretend you don't know anything, you'll find you won't be complaining about the costs of this sport, but thinking in your head "I can't believe the only make me pay $XXX and I don't get thrown in jail for this!"

There was a guy, who thought that way, at one of the FAST School sessions I took. He said that there wasn't anything that the instructors could teach him, and that he was just there for the track time. Funny thing was that I was faster than him everywhere on the track, that didn't involve a straight of more than 150 feet. That's back when I wasn't just slow (like I still am), but GAWDAWFUL slow.

Oh, he even brought a couple of friends along with a RADAR gun, to catch his speed down the front straight.

 

[Venom01]

There was a guy, who thought that way, at one of the FAST School sessions I took. He said that there wasn't anything that the instructors could teach him, and that he was just there for the track time. Funny thing was that I was faster than him everywhere on the track, that didn't involve a straight of more than 150 feet. That's back when I wasn't just slow (like I still am), but GAWDAWFUL slow.

Oh, he even brought a couple of friends along with a RADAR gun, to catch his speed down the front straight.

Really? wow, r u serious? A radar gun? Did he bring a small camera crew with him to?



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[Yamaha_Gurl]

I still remember the guy on a repsol 1000 from a couple years ago at TMP. He claimed he was an extremely good and fast street rider, one of the fastest in Hamilton, he said. On his first trackday he signed up for intermediate, stating that "I'm sure they'll let me move up if there's room". Well, a couple laps in intermediate and he was black flagged for going WAY too slow. He claimed he wasn't use to his new tires *rolls eyes* lol

 

[Shaman]

To be fair, I've seen the opposite too. There are people with natural talent. Some people show up with no track experience at all and by the end of a day, nobody knows where to put them... too fast for beginner's class, too inexperienced to go anywhere else (and fast even in intermediate, for that matter). Everyone's different.

This kind of person is rare. And often gets hurt before they can get the passing skills etc. that they need to be safe with their natural raw talent.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Really? wow, r u serious? A radar gun? Did he bring a small camera crew with him to?

This was before the days of GoPro, but one of his buddies did have a camera.

To be fair, I've seen the opposite too. There are people with natural talent. Some people show up with no track experience at all and by the end of a day, nobody knows where to put them... too fast for beginner's class, too inexperienced to go anywhere else (and fast even in intermediate, for that matter). Everyone's different.

This kind of person is rare. And often gets hurt before they can get the passing skills etc. that they need to be safe with their natural raw talent.

Yeah, usually those guys with 'natural talent' come from somewhere like Tennessee or southern Georgia :lol:

The kind of guys, that you're describing, are the ones who can't find a line to save their lives. I would frequently run into them, almost literally, while they were dragging everything but their shoulders and I was riding around the outside of them. Nothing quite wakes you up like hitting the second half of a double apex, aimed at the side of a bike that's headed off the track.

 

[Brian P]

There was a guy, who thought that way, at one of the FAST School sessions I took. He said that there wasn't anything that the instructors could teach him, and that he was just there for the track time. Funny thing was that I was faster than him everywhere on the track, that didn't involve a straight of more than 150 feet. That's back when I wasn't just slow (like I still am), but GAWDAWFUL slow.

Oh, he even brought a couple of friends along with a RADAR gun, to catch his speed down the front straight.

Rule of thumb for track days and track schools; the loudest smack talkers are usually the slowest (in the corners).

Funny thing about roadracing; there's very little smack talking in the paddock. When the green flag drops, the you-know-what stops ...

 

[Venom01]

I personally won't have to look back for you?

Another professional rider won't have to look back for you?

Valentino Rossi won't have to look back for you?

It's pretty difficult to make a blanket statement like this without being, or at least sounding arrogant?


We get back to the fact that street riding is COMPLETELY different than track riding.

at your first trackday, an entry fast group trackday rider(someone with no race experience) will be lapping you at least once per 15 min session.

Add someone with race experience and you'll be getting lapped 2+ times in 15min trackday sessions.

Your the one trying to make it sound arrogant I.M.O. your real ambassador to your sport you seem to love so much rep.
I don't know where I said "I'd be lapping these ********" or "look out fastest time of the day" however you keep implying that I'm trying to head in that direction. All I said is that's about the pace I keep weather I be right or wrong, and if I am how is it any skin off your back anyway. What you can beat me in a race? Why not afterwards go go punch an infant in its face and steal its candy. Its getting to the point where I think your just enjoying yourself a little to much here rep. If I really don't know what the **** I'm talking about how about you leave it to me. All I really asked on top of the original post is are we going to be stuck doing this group thing all day because I'd like to find my own pace. Yet you some how keep insisting that I'm going on like I'm saying im gonna be next in line to the starting grid of motor gp. You either have no social skills or your just angry at everyone no where experienced as you. No matter what you say I don't care. You don't know me. You've never had a ride with me and at this point even if we could I wouldn't care to. Its funny how other people here can respond to me with answers and facts that are encouraging enough to really take the time and plan getting to one of these courses. Either you are far to used to pop collar hot shots who apparently bring radar guns to the track to show the top dog dominant rule of the straight away and are sick of it
(And to be honest I couldn't blame you for that) or are just one of those people with a huge chip on their shoulder. And before you go on again about any comment I made how about you sit back and actually give back some input that would actually help out someone who wants to try this, what to expect, what not to expect, draw from personal experience for insight. Someone early in this thread said that they were afraid to talk or ask questions about the track because the track guys would flame them. I wonder what ever made them think that? You know rep, it seems you know what your doing, no doubt about that. However your attitude towards other riders at times makes me at least think that you are no better then the hot **** dweebles that pose by there bikes and emode a "respect my dominance bra" except you may be able to actually ride your bike. And if that's the case fine. Its just not doing any good here. Now post back and tell me how this post I just made makes me look even more retarded, go ahead. I no longer care what you make of it. I'm just glad you can sleep easier knowing that you did your best to belittled all the people who are trying to improve themselves no mattter how good or bad they may think they are. You said you teach classes? Yeah nice, like I said, real great ambassador for your sport!
I
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[jc100]

Not sure if it's already been said as this thread is huge but the cost of lapping the Nurburgring that was posted is PER LAP!!!!!

Yep...that's the point. Some people don't want to pay a fortune, have a ton of lessons etc....some people want to just have a "go-kart" experience and there are ways of doing this safely.

 

[jc100]

Keep in mind the tech requirements may cost you, there's a link on that page. You need a one-piece or two-piece wraparound zipper suit, and track boots, for example.

I'm thinking perhaps one of the reasons the 'ring can be so cheap is that they don't have the tort laws there that we have here. This is how they can have the IOM TT and we can't, or open access to rally races in Europe while here spectators are hearded into a few pre-selected viewing areas. How that relates to this subject is that organizers have a responsibility to make sure you as much safe gear and bike prep as can reasonably be demanded from you. So your cost goes up.

The bottom line is you first time on the track isn't likely to cost you less than $500, and if you decide to stick with track your costs will only escalate (though the costs will spread out so each track day costs less). You have to decide if you will benefit from the track day enough to warrant the cost, either for the enjoyment of the day itself or as a means of assessing your interest in pursuing more track days in the future.

My take is for anyone who even has a passing interest in trying track, do a school first. They cover your gear and the bike prep too. Of course some just can't afford it, but then they won't be able to afford track days either. And doing a single lap, or even just a few laps, around any track isn't going to tell you anything about your skill level or your level of interest in pursuing it. Like I said, there's a different purpose for pay-per-lap at the 'ring.

That's what I did.

I have a two piece and boots that would probably pass track inspection. I'm just interested and curious in a couple of laps with minimal instruction just to see...if this entails a few hundred bucks then I'm not that curious, that's really the summary here.

You're probably right about the legal issue. I'm not allowed to do the explosive demonstrations in my lectures here that I'd be able to do in europe without the fear that some little angel's father or mother is going to sue me for emotional distress.

 

[Shaman]

The kind of guys, that you're describing, are the ones who can't find a line to save their lives. I would frequently run into them, almost literally, while they were dragging everything but their shoulders and I was riding around the outside of them. Nothing quite wakes you up like hitting the second half of a double apex, aimed at the side of a bike that's headed off the track.

Well, not always. But I know the type of rider you're talking about. While I may be in danger of being passed by a quick rider on a SV any time I'm out, I do run into (almost literally) riders that look like Ben Spies in corners and yet are practically parked there. That's a whole other subject.

 

[jc100]

Nurburgring: Swipe a credit card, do a lap. Swipe a credit card, do a lap. Swipe a credit card, do a lap. Swipe a credit card, do a lap.

Canadian Track School: Swipe your credit card. Be given bike, boots, gloves, leathers, helmet, and track-prepped bike for the day. Get instruction by some of the best riders in the country, with individual critique. Toss the bike away and completely wad it, and you're out the insurance deductible. Jump on another bike and continue.

I just want to swipe my credit card once and do one lap...maybe two.

 

[reciprocity]

Are we a little sensitive?

I think I offered several points of advice.

Go to a track school and pretend you don't know ANYTHING about riding a motorcycle, street riding will have taught you nothing but bad habits for the racetrack.

This goes for ANY type of learning environment, I do a small amount of teaching at the race track when it is requested by someone, but I am also a jujitsu and boxing coach and have been for some time and I've found that those who show up with a clean slate learn the most by far.

Several others, who have been involved in the sport as long or longer than I have made the exact same statements as I did, perhaps there is some relevance to the information.

The issue starts with threads like this one.

A question is asked and people with experience offer information that is relevant to the original question.

Then things go sideways because someone that has no relevant experience begins to refute or disagree with the information provided by those with experience.

For the people that are afraid to ask questions at the track, those are the same people who are afraid to speak up in any situation and unfortunately, nothing can be done about this, if they're intimidated, they other issues that need to be dealt with.

The same problem as above happens at the track as well, someone asks a question, they are given an answer by someone with experience, but then they want to argue with the answer because its not what they want to hear and has revealed a serious flaw in their way of doing things.

I guess if you're going to be offended by an answer, the solution is to avoid asking questions.

 

[Venom01]

Are we a little sensitive?

I think I offered several points of advice.

Go to a track school and pretend you don't know ANYTHING about riding a motorcycle, street riding will have taught you nothing but bad habits for the racetrack.

This goes for ANY type of learning environment, I do a small amount of teaching at the race track when it is requested by someone, but I am also a jujitsu and boxing coach and have been for some time and I've found that those who show up with a clean slate learn the most by far.

Several others, who have been involved in the sport as long or longer than I have made the exact same statements as I did, perhaps there is some relevance to the information.

The issue starts with threads like this one.

A question is asked and people with experience offer information that is relevant to the original question.

Then things go sideways because someone that has no relevant experience begins to refute or disagree with the information provided by those with experience.

For the people that are afraid to ask questions at the track, those are the same people who are afraid to speak up in any situation and unfortunately, nothing can be done about this, if they're intimidated, they other issues that need to be dealt with.

The same problem as above happens at the track as well, someone asks a question, they are given an answer by someone with experience, but then they want to argue with the answer because its not what they want to hear and has revealed a serious flaw in their way of doing things.

I guess if you're going to be offended by an answer, the solution is to avoid asking questions.

Well that's where your wrong. Because Along with whatever answers you given they have come with insults which nobody here invited. Hahahhahaha your all so dumb now shut up and lisiten.you could have a little civility even if it is am internet forum.

On topof this you have answered any questions Ive asked at all.
1. Start with a beginner class?
2. Free to go at my own pace?
3. Best way to go about getting their ( rent a bike, go with another person, trailer or ride there)

All you have done is opinionate yourself and pretty rudely on notions I may have about the class or what little skills I already have or don't have at all acording to you. Be that what ever "advice" you given it would seem not with some attitude which another poster actually mentioned I should just try to ignore. So your telling me mabey I shouldn't ask questions? Why not? I got some great answers to the ones I actually asked. Mabey its you who should take more care in restricting yourself in answering questions no one asked.

Goodnight. I'm sure this thread will be gone by morning. I'm sorry I had anything to do with it going off the rails like this.

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[reciprocity]

Where did I insult you??

You made some statements and I asked for clarification.

 

[ZX600]

Your the one trying to make it sound arrogant I.M.O. your real ambassador to your sport you seem to love so much rep.
I don't know where I said "I'd be lapping these ********" or "look out fastest time of the day" however you keep implying that I'm trying to head in that direction. All I said is that's about the pace I keep weather I be right or wrong, and if I am how is it any skin off your back anyway. What you can beat me in a race? Why not afterwards go go punch an infant in its face and steal its candy. Its getting to the point where I think your just enjoying yourself a little to much here rep. If I really don't know what the **** I'm talking about how about you leave it to me. All I really asked on top of the original post is are we going to be stuck doing this group thing all day because I'd like to find my own pace. Yet you some how keep insisting that I'm going on like I'm saying im gonna be next in line to the starting grid of motor gp. You either have no social skills or your just angry at everyone no where experienced as you. No matter what you say I don't care. You don't know me. You've never had a ride with me and at this point even if we could I wouldn't care to. Its funny how other people here can respond to me with answers and facts that are encouraging enough to really take the time and plan getting to one of these courses. Either you are far to used to pop collar hot shots who apparently bring radar guns to the track to show the top dog dominant rule of the straight away and are sick of it
(And to be honest I couldn't blame you for that) or are just one of those people with a huge chip on their shoulder. And before you go on again about any comment I made how about you sit back and actually give back some input that would actually help out someone who wants to try this, what to expect, what not to expect, draw from personal experience for insight. Someone early in this thread said that they were afraid to talk or ask questions about the track because the track guys would flame them. I wonder what ever made them think that? You know rep, it seems you know what your doing, no doubt about that. However your attitude towards other riders at times makes me at least think that you are no better then the hot **** dweebles that pose by there bikes and emode a "respect my dominance bra" except you may be able to actually ride your bike. And if that's the case fine. Its just not doing any good here. Now post back and tell me how this post I just made makes me look even more retarded, go ahead. I no longer care what you make of it. I'm just glad you can sleep easier knowing that you did your best to belittled all the people who are trying to improve themselves no mattter how good or bad they may think they are. You said you teach classes? Yeah nice, like I said, real great ambassador for your sport!
I
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if you are as good as you say you are then stop saying it, no need to prove anything to anyone.

 

[fastar1]

at your first trackday, an entry fast group trackday rider(someone with no race experience) will be lapping you at least once per 15 min session.

Add someone with race experience and you'll be getting lapped 2+ times in 15min trackday sessions.

Doesn't it cut both ways recip? If he can't know his actual track speed than neither can you.

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