Sorry if this is already being talked about somewhere else, I did my best to check. This seems like a good deal for Toronto... too good of a deal. How could this come around to bite the city in the ass?
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Toronto uploads Gardiner, DVP to province
- Thread starter TwistedKestrel
- Start date
Sorry if this is already being talked about somewhere else, I did my best to check. This seems like a good deal for Toronto... too good of a deal. How could this come around to bite the city in the ass?
"By uploading the Gardiner and DVP, the city will be able to spend billions more on affordable housing, fixing transit and building communities," Chow said. "Over the next few years we will continue to examine the city's finances and working on Toronto's long-term financial sustainability. It's a beginning of a journey, it's a wonderful first step."
When none of this (See red text above) gets done...
Douggie paid a very high price to keep the curtains closed around ontario place. The pile of stink there must be epic.
On the surface it looks like a good deal. Billions off the books / responsibility as now it's a Provincial problem. So now, all of Ontario is funding the upkeep of the Gardiner, which isn't all that fair to the people outside of the GTA.
Now if the Ontario gov't is funding it, does that mean that OPP becomes the primary police force keeping watch instead of Toronto?
I think that the digging will now start into the Ontario Place wheeling and dealing and things will come to light whether Doug wants them to or not.
But on the surface...it's a win for Toronto, and an additional cost on the Ontario tax payers.
Now if the Ontario gov't is funding it, does that mean that OPP becomes the primary police force keeping watch instead of Toronto?
I think that the digging will now start into the Ontario Place wheeling and dealing and things will come to light whether Doug wants them to or not.
But on the surface...it's a win for Toronto, and an additional cost on the Ontario tax payers.
Perks to living in the centre of the universe.
Good deal for Toronto. DVP and Gardener are greatly used by commuters outside of TO. Only fair the maintenence is shared by GTA taxpayers and not just TO.,
With regards to the savings. Only time will tell if the funds actually get used properly. Hopefully its a shared resource e.g. social issues and core City deliverables, afordable housing, homeless , public transit, core city infrastructure like roads, watermains, sewers etc.
With regards to the savings. Only time will tell if the funds actually get used properly. Hopefully its a shared resource e.g. social issues and core City deliverables, afordable housing, homeless , public transit, core city infrastructure like roads, watermains, sewers etc.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think funding the major highways is a benefit to all in Ontario. Toronto is the economic center of Canada, open and reliable transportation corridors in/out of the city benefit everyone -- I depend on those highways and I don't pay taxes to Toronto.
On the flip side, all Ontarians (like us in the GTHA) pay for highways and Northern Ontario's tertiary road system.
When was the last time you enjoyed hwy 507 or 144? You pay for it!
Like... put it this way.
If I frame it as the cost shifting from a hypothetical socially & fiscally responsible municipal government to a responsible provincial government, then it is a net zero change. No new money is being created to maintain these highways, it's basically an administrative change. Probably the same contractors bid on the jobs with the same terms.
That's not what happened though. Premier Doug Ford took on these costs on behalf of the province, from mayor Olivia Chow on behalf of the city. It's like shaking the hand of the smiling used car salesman that is giving you a suspiciously good deal. This is the guy that got bogged down with the crappy blue license plates trying to save a few bucks. I don't think he would like adding anything to "his" budget that he didn't have to!
I saw people on Reddit suggest that the "investors" behind the Therme deal might kill him if it doesn't go through. That's funny but unlikely.
If I frame it as the cost shifting from a hypothetical socially & fiscally responsible municipal government to a responsible provincial government, then it is a net zero change. No new money is being created to maintain these highways, it's basically an administrative change. Probably the same contractors bid on the jobs with the same terms.
That's not what happened though. Premier Doug Ford took on these costs on behalf of the province, from mayor Olivia Chow on behalf of the city. It's like shaking the hand of the smiling used car salesman that is giving you a suspiciously good deal. This is the guy that got bogged down with the crappy blue license plates trying to save a few bucks. I don't think he would like adding anything to "his" budget that he didn't have to!
I saw people on Reddit suggest that the "investors" behind the Therme deal might kill him if it doesn't go through. That's funny but unlikely.
I'm usually not a "Province must support Toronto because it's the economic hub" kinda guy but realistically I use the DVP and Gardiner second only to 401, 115, 7.
So as someone who goes to Toronto as little as possible, (1-2 times/yr) I still use those roads more then 99% of the other provincially funded roads.
So as someone who goes to Toronto as little as possible, (1-2 times/yr) I still use those roads more then 99% of the other provincially funded roads.
We should know tomorrow as a business case for Ontario place is being made public…
Suspiciously good timing…
Suspiciously good timing…
or is it payback for having to endure all the conjested traffic and smog ?
Doesn’t bother me, never has.
AFAIK the DVP has always been the city's (metro then mega) and the Gardiner was the city's east of the Humber river.
The province did download the portion west of the Humber to the 427 which was once part of the QEW, after the download it became part of the Gardiner. The original QEW monument is in the park at the Humber.
****
At least this takes it out of the councillors hands that just want to tear it down.... Of course we don't know who will be the next Ontario Government. I also expect Hamilton to get their hand out for the Linc and Red Hill....
AFAIC if it doesn't have a 3 digit number starting with a 4 it's the (pertinent) city's problem.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The province maintains the highway network in Ontario:
Highway 1 - Trans Canada
King's Highways* - numbered 2-148
400 series & QEW - multi-lane divided highways
500 & 600 series - secondary highways
800 series - tertiary highways of Northern Ontario
7000 series -- mostly short (<20km) that operate as service or access roads. Many are parts of highways that were rerouted or decommissioned.
All highways in Ontario's network are 'King's highways', however the ones numbered from 2-148 are specifically titled 'King's Highways'
And all of those highways that go through a city that section is the responsibility of said city, except 400 series.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The province funds and maintains all highways.
Cities sometimes own and hold responsible for 'connecting links', portions of the highways that pass through the cities but were never part of the highway itself. There aren't many of them longer than 2km.
The DVP from downtown to the 401 is a connecting link, as is the Gardiner, Red Hill and LINC -- they were downloaded in 2013 when the Wynne govt canceled that long-standing program. It mostly impacted Toronto, Hamilton and Windsor.
This latest round-up funding brings municipal funding back to pre-Wynne levels.
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