Lived on Dundas. Didn't know the background till now. What is Roncesvalles named after? Lived there too.
NVM...looked it up:
names are attributed to Walter O'Hara:
Roncesvalles Avenue,- O'Hara named it after the Battle of Roncesvalles which took place in the Roncesvalles gorge in Spain in 1813 in which he led a regiment that fought against the retreating army of Napoleon.
Lived on Dundas. Didn't know the background till now. What is Roncesvalles named after? Lived there too.
NVM...looked it up:
names are attributed to Walter O'Hara:
Roncesvalles Avenue,- O'Hara named it after the Battle of Roncesvalles which took place in the Roncesvalles gorge in Spain in 1813 in which he led a regiment that fought against the retreating army of Napoleon.
Mad Mike commented that going to numbered streets would pretty much end the problem so Roncesvalle would become maybe 193rd West Street and Ronces Village would become 193rd West Street Village. End all the quaint names. No more Bloor West village, Little Italy, Portugal, Greektown or Chinatown.
The Kensington Market used to be called the Jewish Market. I'm not sure of the politics of the change.
Joseph Bloor was a brewer and land speculator. The tea totalers will be offended as should the people trying to find a house under a million dollars.
I am starting to understand the Dundas Street issue but we need real leadership here. Is this a national, provincial or municipal issue and what are to be the new guidelines. Or do we make them up based on what special interest group is protesting today?
Henry Dundas, as I read it, was against slavery but delayed the banning for 15 years to allow a smoother transition to a slave free society. I don't know how much was due to financial concerns, how much due to an ongoing war with France and how much for humanitarian reasons.
If Dundas is to be dragged through the mud for his delaying tactics every Canadian prime minister, living or dead, should be treated the same for delaying aboriginal problems, woman's rights etc for far longer than 15 years.
I have a problem with the “Cancel culture” that drives these things. Street names, monuments, statues are like history books to me. At the time they are erected or named, representatives of society at that time saw fit to recognize their work. It’s not like toppling a statue of Saddam that he erected to honour himself.
As time passes, civilizations change. Our ideals change. I’d prefer we keep these things in place and make their stories clear to all that see them.
Were in the midst of revisiting, learning and teaching what happened in Residential schools. I believe indigenous groups are active in preserving the remaining school structures - I don’t thing they want anyone to forget. What happens when a group of socialist intellectuals lobbies to bulldoze (cancel) those structures for what they represent?
Leave Dundas street alone. Spend a few thousand dollars on plaques that truthfully tell the good, bad and ugly of the story.
I have a problem with the “Cancel culture” that drives these things. Street names, monuments, statues are like history books to me. At the time they are erected or named, representatives of society at that time saw fit to recognize their work. It’s not like toppling a statue of Saddam that he erected to honour himself.
As time passes, civilizations change. Our ideals change. I’d prefer we keep these things in place and make their stories clear to all that see them.
Were in the midst of revisiting, learning and teaching what happened in Residential schools. I believe indigenous groups are active in preserving the remaining school structures - I don’t thing they want anyone to forget. What happens when a group of socialist intellectuals lobbies to bulldoze (cancel) those structures for what they represent?
Leave Dundas street alone. Spend a few thousand dollars on plaques that truthfully tell the good, bad and ugly of the story.
Good point on leaving Dundas Street alone with plaques telling the history. Let it be a variation of a Holocaust museum but hundreds of kilometres long.
Henry Dundas, as I read it, was against slavery but delayed the banning for 15 years to allow a smoother transition to a slave free society. I don't know how much was due to financial concerns, how much due to an ongoing war with France and how much for humanitarian reasons.
He added clauses into the law for graduate and moderate abolishment of slavery. Which many of his contemporaries believed was a political ploy to delay it indefinitely. They should just rename Dundas after his contemporary William Wilberforce who among other things dedicated his life to the abolishment of slavery. The left can claim brownie points for picking the "right" politician of the era.
Also 1792 to 1833 with the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 is 41 years before the abolishment of slavery. The Slave Trade Act 1807 only dealt with the trade side of slavery, and not the ownership of slaves.
A few years back I was working with a cop a few weeks before his retirement. He was going into security for a condo I was servicing.
He was somewhat cynical of the new officers coming in with BA degrees. His experiences were that they weren't interested in mundane traffic stops and were just working their way up in the organization. Like I said, he was a cynic which can be understandable.
I heard later that he got into trouble with the condo for being too aggressive with visitor rules.
I did the condo security gig for a time. I had many residents upset with me about how I forced their visitors to call up before letting them in. I tried the logical approach at first, lots of discussions about how “I don’t know who they are, I don’t know if you even want to see them. If I let them up and you’re on bad terms who are you going to blame? Me.” When that stopped working I advised them that I’m simply enforcing rules THEY (board) created, if they want to change the rules I’m happy to support the changes. When that stopped working I handed them complaint forms and got on with my day.
I did the condo security gig for a time. I had many residents upset with me about how I forced their visitors to call up before letting them in. I tried the logical approach at first, lots of discussions about how “I don’t know who they are, I don’t know if you even want to see them. If I let them up and you’re on bad terms who are you going to blame? Me.” When that stopped working I advised them that I’m simply enforcing rules THEY (board) created, if they want to change the rules I’m happy to support the changes. When that stopped working I handed them complaint forms and got on with my day.
Same as the B**** at the bank complaining about having to show I.D...... So it would be OK with her if the bank handed out her money to someone that just walked in pretending to be her.
Same as the B**** at the bank complaining about having to show I.D...... So it would be OK with her if the bank handed out her money to someone that just walked in pretending to be her.
The rules are there and good as long as they don’t inconvenience people.
Same as for @Evoex story…he’s in a no win situation. People want everything to cater to THEM but if anything goes wrong….now it’s YOUR fault because you didn’t do your job.
‘Hi, I’m @nobbie48 and would like to make a withdrawal’
‘I dunno….you don’t look like him’
‘Are you questioning me young man!? I’ve been coming to this bank since before you were born!’
‘Yes sir, right away sir’
Meanwhile @nobbie48 gets a notification at home of a withdrawal from his bank account while chilling on his deck.
I guess they should have spent more money renaming Younge-Dandas to Sankofa Square:
Sankofa originates from the Ghanaian Akan language
Wikipedia:
This wealth in gold attracted European traders. Initially, the Europeans were Portuguese, soon joined by the Dutch and the British in their quest for Akan gold. The Akan waged war on neighboring states in their geographic area to capture people and sell them as slaves to Europeans (Portuguese) who subsequently sold the enslaved people along with guns to the Akan in exchange for Akan gold. Akan gold was also used to purchase enslaved people from further up north via the Trans-Saharan route. The Akan purchased enslaved people to help clear the dense forests within Ashanti.[15][16] About a third of the population of many Akan states were indentured servants (i.e. Non-Akan peoples). The Akan went from buyers of slaves to selling slaves as the dynamics in the Gold Coast and the New World changed. Thus, the Akan people played a role in supplying Europeans with indentured servants, who were later enslaved by the Europeans for the trans-Atlantic slave trade.[17] In 2006, Ghana apologized to the descendants of enslaved Africans for the role played in the slave trade.[18]
I guess they should have spent more money renaming Younge-Dandas to Sankofa Square:
Sankofa originates from the Ghanaian Akan language
Wikipedia:
This wealth in gold attracted European traders. Initially, the Europeans were Portuguese, soon joined by the Dutch and the British in their quest for Akan gold. The Akan waged war on neighboring states in their geographic area to capture people and sell them as slaves to Europeans (Portuguese) who subsequently sold the enslaved people along with guns to the Akan in exchange for Akan gold. Akan gold was also used to purchase enslaved people from further up north via the Trans-Saharan route. The Akan purchased enslaved people to help clear the dense forests within Ashanti.[15][16] About a third of the population of many Akan states were indentured servants (i.e. Non-Akan peoples). The Akan went from buyers of slaves to selling slaves as the dynamics in the Gold Coast and the New World changed. Thus, the Akan people played a role in supplying Europeans with indentured servants, who were later enslaved by the Europeans for the trans-Atlantic slave trade.[17] In 2006, Ghana apologized to the descendants of enslaved Africans for the role played in the slave trade.[18]
That's exactly what it means. Remember...these people don't actually care about the cause / reason / justification...they just see something that someone sells them in a good way, and they jump on it.
To quote Winston Churchill, who once was the Prime Minister of England. A country that was also involved in the slave trade. - History is written by the victor
No pun intended!
As for the slave trade in Africa/trans Atlantic. Europeans did not usually strike out into the interior to round people up en-mass. They normally bought them in markets near the cost from other Africans. Slavery is as ugly as it gets and it is rarely "black and white". That person that looks like you today may be a descendant of the tribe/group that raided a village and sold your descendants into slavery--a part of history some like to forget.
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