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Tipping

Some N American things I don’t like. In Europe, I’m not going to be hassled out of my seat if I’m taking my time. In North America I’ve been constantly reminded or hassled at times in terms of leaving soon to give the table to another customer. That really ticks me off for some reason.

Meals in Europe are a big social event and can take time. Meals in North America are perfunctory and in general everyone chows down like it’s the last supper.

In Europe generally for the same quality restaurant the food has been excellent. In North America, even in Toronto’s big name places it’s been decidedly “meh”. Quebec it’s different and more on par with a European place.

I’ve had amazing service in Europe because many of the servers were immigrants intent on working hard and doing the best job they can. That’s not always true in North America.

These are big generalizations of course but they also generally hold true for me.
There will always be generalizations. Over the years 95% of my travel has been corporate, dining on the company dime and usually with associates or clients. In my circle of Euro and Asian business associates, US dining is universally favoured… by a long shot.
 
There will always be generalizations. Over the years 95% of my travel has been corporate, dining on the company dime and usually with associates or clients. In my circle of Euro and Asian business associates, US dining is universally favoured… by a long shot.

Me too. I’ve had pharmaceutical companies/corporate reps wine and dine me at some of the US and Canada’s best restaurants and I’ve eaten at some excellent restaurants in Europe and there’s no competition at all in my mind. European food at a high level is in a class of its own. The best restaurant in our area in my opinion isn’t in Kingston, it’s hidden away in Bellville run by a French chef with real patisserie and even simple things cooked perfectly.

It depends what your taste is though, mine isn’t really steak or lobster. I like something a bit different, inventive sauces etc.

Edit: one of the reasons I go to Quebec every summer is to get some decent food. They just take more care there for some reason.
 
So, if your bill is, say $15, you tip five bucks? And a $95 bill also gets a fiver?
I can't imagine having a sit down meal in a restaurant for $15, but yes. A server brought me that $15 meal, the same as a server bringing me a $95 meal. Say the server is making $17 an hour and covers four tables an hour. Now they are making $37 an hour if everyone tipped like me. I know they do tip outs and taxes, but they are very far from starving. I'm not saying they have an easy job either, but since there is no longer a difference in minimum wage for servers and others, tipping is not as necessary as it was in the past.
 
European dining vs American is such a moving target . I’ve had excellent service on both Continents. And I’ve experienced the f the tourist culture in Europe. Wine switch out ( they got caught) in Italy . And I’ve had the upsell in Atlanta ( we have a tomawk special) in fairness we didn’t ask the price , it was a special at $185 US . 4 of us ea ordered a steak , 2 would have fed 4 , maybe 6 lol.
I’ve been ignored in so many pubs in Canada it’s just sad . They aren’t busy , it’s staff bitching about whatever in a corner .
In my business I’m out a lot , socially I’m out a lot , I think it’s sad when very average service makes you feel good .


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The total cost to customer (or taxpayer) shouldn't change much in theory, just the route by which the serving staff get paid.

The American assumption is that a withdrawable financial incentive is the best way to ensure good service. The European/Aussie approach is that they are being paid to do a job, so good (enough) service is a baseline expectation. I think a lot hinges around what the expectation of 'good service' actually is.

Americans want big smiles and chit chat, while Europeans want expertise. That's obviously a huge generalisation, and there are plenty of exceptions, but largely it illustrates the different expectations towards a dining experience. In North America, waitstaff are typically young and higher energy, and doing the job as either a stepping stone or as a side gig. In much of Europe, it's considered a decent job worthy of a career. You're expected to know about how to recommend a wine or explain a dish. In the same way you wouldn't tip any other professional (accountant? mechanic?), you don't tip waitstaff. But you also don't expect them to pretend to be thrilled to see you even if they're not, nor do you expect them to pretend to care about what your plans are for the rest of the day when they hand you the POS machine...

I know which one I prefer, but as the endless complaints from Americans (and Canadians, to be fair) about perceptions of poor service in Europe indicate, I'm not in the majority here...
Americans IMO have the pleasantries down pat and may be disappointed when they don't get their egos fluffed elsewhere and they complain.

I can't speak for Europe but Canada hasn't got the chat down as well. Swiss Chalet was the one that bugged me the most. You walk in and they ignore you for ten minutes before they breakout the smiles. It's a "We're in charge attitude."

The now gone Valhalla Inn had good food and service but the staff grovelled. Don't grovel like the hunchback of Notre Dame.

Mutual respect. Don't show up at 6:00 PM Saturday without a reservation and expect to move to the front of the hour long line. If you don't want to wait go elsewhere or learn to make reservations.
 
The current trend of indigo chapters stores wanting a donation so they can put books in an underfunded school ? So you’ll send them excess inventory you have already written down, take a credit for the charitable donation , and that helps me how? Sorry , creative tax strategy guy , not chipping in .


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Back in the late 90s when I was working downtown we went out as a group from work for drinks and steaks basically once per week, vendors picked up many of the tabs pre 2000 bubble but not always.

One day somehow the discussion of how much the servers were making came up (sort of "arrogant" why do they stay in these jobs). So we considered how many tables they were serving each night, what typical bills were per table, how much that resulted in tips, how tips get split, how tips were taxed (cash was still king then)... well we figured out after taxes they likely made--much--more many than we did!
 
Id say many servers stay in those jobs as if they’re in a good restaurant, and have good shifts…they can make a very good income tax free.

It’s a great gig if you also have a daytime salaried job.

Tax free money to spend on day to day. Taxed salary to show income. Win-win.
 
Good servers in high end restaurants make very nice money . It’s a career in GOOD restaurants . It’s often volatile as restaurants can come and go . But the front house guys at places like The Old Mill have been there decades .


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Good servers in high end restaurants make very nice money . It’s a career in GOOD restaurants . It’s often volatile as restaurants can come and go . But the front house guys at places like The Old Mill have been there decades .


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Pretty much this. As noted they were likely making more (take home) than we were even at the peak of the dot.com.

There is a reason Swiss Chalet (as an example) tends to have either very young or older wait staff. Young at the beginning of a career (and with experience may move on to higher end) or just making money until something else/school. Or end of the career as a sad reflection of society they have "aged out" of higher end places.
 
Good servers in high end restaurants make very nice money . It’s a career in GOOD restaurants . It’s often volatile as restaurants can come and go . But the front house guys at places like The Old Mill have been there decades .


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We’ve been going to Credit Valley for close to 15 years…all of the servers are basically the same except for a small handful of young summer staff.
 

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