Ticketed for Driving with an M1 at night. | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Ticketed for Driving with an M1 at night.

I think ur plan with for a pretrial with the crown is probably the best way forward. That in conjunction with Major's advice you should be able to work something out. Hell if our court systems can give murdering crackheads a second chance Im sure they can for a crackhead biker too, lol, just teasing. As I told some other dude who going thru something simialr, just say something about your job requiring you to have a clean record so u dont need any record of this on your license and throw yourself at their mercy, theyve got egos too and they love it when people stroke 'em.
 
Fixed. Sorry to be blunt, but that's what happened.

This has nothing to do with a lessor charge, sentencing, points, the police, or the courts. It's a punishment levied by the MTO for being convicted of violating a condition of graduated licensing. The kicker is that the 30 day suspension also applies to your other licenses (ie; your G license).

Fighting this will be difficult as it will be easy to prove that you were;

- on a highway
- licensed as an M1 rider on the date in question,
- riding after 1/2 hour after sunset

Once those facts are proven beyond reasonable doubt, the JP will have no option but to convict, and it doesn't matter that you got your M2 the following day. Once the conviction is registered, the MTO will suspend your license(s).

I would DEFINITELY seek a meeting with the Crown to see if any other resolution would be available that would prevent a JP from having to make a decision on the matter.

Although you could always go with the much-touted "cop won't show up" gamble... but you're gambling with a 30 day suspension and the insurance hike that will come with it.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/gradu/index.shtml#escalating

Exactly right and what I was alluding to. What's more this shows up as a license suspension, on your abstract, which can be seen by your insurer.
 
Fight it. Consider getting representation. This is a big deal.

Unfortunately, most people don't realize the implications of violating the restrictions on a limited license. If they did, they would take more care. I think the penalty far outweighs the crime for this, but it is what it is and you now have to deal with it.

If I were in your shoes I'd stress your rationale for making the decision you that you did. I'd feel free to exaggerate - i.e bikes get stolen from that place everyday, I asked if anyone else with 2 ks could ride my bike home for me etc.

Good luck and too bad the cops were *****.
 
Stressing rationale or any other viewpoint won't help at all. If a case is made beyond reasonable doubt before a JP, the JP has no choice but to convict. The JP DOES have the ability to vary the sentence based on your arguments, but in this case the suspension is not the sentence, it is an automatic punishment levied by the MTO and as such, the JP CANNOT vary it (just like points; the JP may lower the fine for the conviction but he has no authority over the points).

The only way to fight this charge is to bring the evidence into question and as I mentioned previously; proving that you were on a highway, after dark, while having an M1 is going to be difficult to challenge.

Again, go see the Crown AHEAD of time to see if something can be done.
 
I guess they would prefer you make alternate arrangements instead of willfully violating the conditions of your graduated license.

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What He Said
 
Stressing rationale or any other viewpoint won't help at all. If a case is made beyond reasonable doubt before a JP, the JP has no choice but to convict. The JP DOES have the ability to vary the sentence based on your arguments, but in this case the suspension is not the sentence, it is an automatic punishment levied by the MTO and as such, the JP CANNOT vary it (just like points; the JP may lower the fine for the conviction but he has no authority over the points).

The only way to fight this charge is to bring the evidence into question and as I mentioned previously; proving that you were on a highway, after dark, while having an M1 is going to be difficult to challenge.

Again, go see the Crown AHEAD of time to see if something can be done.

The JP can also suspend the sentence, which is pretty much the same as a not guilty.
 
Hey Major, thanks for the info. I am going to request a meeting with the Prosecutor and if that fails, then I'll proceed with a court trial >.<

I guess I have 3 + whatever this is :[

I hope I get called for jury duty for the trial.... I'll say you are not guilty!:p
 
The JP can also suspend the sentence, which is pretty much the same as a not guilty.

No, it's not. It's still a guilty conviction with a suspended sentence (kind of like period of probation which, if the convicted person stays out of trouble, there is no further sentence). The conviction will trigger the MTO's response to suspend his license.
 
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The punishment may seem harsh until you see that these clauses (no after dark riding etc) are at the heart of the graduated licensing system.
 
Won't admitting it to the Prosecuter at pre-trial be the same as pleading guilty in front of the JP?

You need to get this charge tossed out. That's your only option. Don't know if the Crown will do that for you.
 
It's all about pleading your case with the Crown who IS in a position to make a deal where the JP isn't. You HAVE to keep in mind that the suspension is automatic for THAT conviction and no one can change that. The elements of this offense are VERY easy to prove.

Won't admitting it to the Prosecuter at pre-trial be the same as pleading guilty in front of the JP?

You need to get this charge tossed out. That's your only option. Don't know if the Crown will do that for you.



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Hey, thanks for the feedback again.

So interestingly enough, I ended up speaking to a cop last night (had to report plates stolen, had them on my bike when I went into my friend's work, came out 30 min later and they were gone...talk about bad luck with this endeavour into bikes). While I was waiting for them to finish their report, the Peel cop I was dealing with happened to ask me about what happened with the M1 incident, since it showed up when I gave him my licence, so I explained it to him, and he suggested the early meeting option as well.

The way he put it was, while my actions weren't lawful, I could argue it was out of fear for my possessions, and that if there weren't any added offences on the M1 ticket besides driving at night, the Crown might be forgiving as in 4 years of driving, all I have is a single speeding ticket. To paraphrase what he said as well, he was like "Putting myself out of the role of a cop, I don't blame you for your actions, and if there were sketchy people around my bike or it was going to have to be stuck there overnight, a lot of people would have acted the same way. Usually with cases with no stacked offences, the Crown isn't interested in letting one-off things clog up the court systems when there already a bunch of people wasting time for 10km-over speeding tickets, as well as the fact that you have your M2 now anyway. I'm not sure if they are going to go out of their way to suspend your licence over an M1 violation when at the time of their conviction, that violation would have already been lifted due to the fact they'd be suspending a G2M2 instead of a G2M1 - again that is at the discretion of whoever you are dealing with. I am assuming he will give you a general fine and let it go, but at the same time, that is dependant on how good of a talker you are, and if that guy isn't a dick. I think a lot of people would understand your actions, just do what you can."

Hopefully this guy is right. In respects to what everyone is saying though, I'm not upset or angry at the laws or anything. I shouldn't have put myself in a situation where I may have potentially had to drive late, and I shouldn't have left my bike in an area I wasn't comfortable leaving it. I took a risk to try and keep my bike safe, and I got busted for it, nothing I can do there.

I appreciate the realism to be honest, and I also am very thankful for the people supporting my case. You guys are awesome :]
 
Fight it. Consider getting representation. This is a big deal.

Unfortunately, most people don't realize the implications of violating the restrictions on a limited license. If they did, they would take more care. I think the penalty far outweighs the crime for this, but it is what it is and you now have to deal with it.

If I were in your shoes I'd stress your rationale for making the decision you that you did. I'd feel free to exaggerate - i.e bikes get stolen from that place everyday, I asked if anyone else with 2 ks could ride my bike home for me etc.

Good luck and too bad the cops were *****.

How were they *****? This is a clear violation, much more so than a speeding ticket. They are not going to risk letting him go cause if he has an accident they are ****ed.
 
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How were they *****? This is a clear violation, much more so than a speeding ticket. They are not going to risk letting him go cause if he has an accident they are ****ed.

He didn't mean it as they were being ***** for giving me a ticket.

I mentioned earlier that the disposition/attitude they had was horrible/they were just the rudest people I had ever dealt with compared to every cop I had encountered prior. I don't have a problem with what they gave me, I just don't like people cutting me off when I talk, or people who instigate intent that had no merit based on the situation, or ask me to talk, then proceed to tell me they "frankly don't give a ****". Charging people/giving tickets is their job, and if you were in violation, then that is your own problem. But being a belligerent idiot to someone who wasn't reciprocating that behaviour is just a waste of money on someone who doesn't deserve to represent their city's justice.
 
Sorry, I am slightly confused. They wrote on the ticket that the reason was "Unlawful hour w/ regards to M1 restrictions" and fined me $110 as max payable. Are you saying that if I were to follow through with any of the options, that my licence would be potentially suspended? The cops never made any mention of that to me...

your license will be suspended for 30 days upon CONVICTION after you turn it in to the MTO. It is the MTO that is suspending you not the courts...the judge has nothing to do with handing out that suspension. If you do not turn in your license it will be suspended for 60 days I believe...Fight the ticket, atleast have it dropped to "Breach of Conditions" rather than the "Breach of Novice conditions" or whatever it you got...Good luck
 
To OP, just go to the first appearance, if the cop shows up, you know he's not going to let it go, these days no cop does, all these people giving you advice are not experienced, or reffering to the system of things from 5 years ago, alot has changed in the system in the past two years.

That being said, the only way you are getting off these days is if the cop has left the force. Just to give you an idea of how this works, if you are a person who considers them selves very lucky, you may have a shot, im one of those people on the other hand who has bad luck, i got a speeding ticket for doing 80 in a 60 zone, when i was only doing 62, cop knew me from the school i attend and he sits there picking on students leaving the university late at night, i was one of them.

To make it short, he pulled me over for my dim front headlight but came back with a speeding ticket, you bet i was confused, tired after a long day i could careless at the time, specially when he was really nice and hinted he woud not show up, so i never even got the full disclosure based on his word. But he did show up 6 months later to the first appearance only for me that also and he was OFF DUTY!, when in fact he told me he would not show up, i guess he said that because he was afraid i would then be prepaired and get the full disclosure and take him to trial, i took him to trail that day anyways and i lost miserably, even though the cop had no proof and i convinced the court with my case that he was wrong/had no proof/doubt, during questioning, but i still lost because they are ALL in it, the prosecuter, the JP and the cops, they see each other everyday and are all there to convict you at all costs! unless you have a good lawyer or professional representation you are not going to win period! and most of my friends come to me with advice when it comes to this stuff, since im basically a self taught lawyer in a sense, and do have experience in court, and i still lost to a cop who had his story all wrong and no reasonable proof.


All you can do in your case is get a good lawyer and get him to do what that cop told you ''off the record'', you will not win even if you try yourself, they will pull ''we are professionals and we are right'' moves on you all day and the JP will convict you at the end.

your best bet is to wait for first appearance, if the cop shows up, request for a reschedule or trail date, just a month before the trail date contact the prosecutor for a meeting, the only thing they will do for this charge is ''no license suspension'' like they did for me, and i had GM license by the time i got this ticket sorted, because i had one other ticket with it, and i kept delaying successfully for a year and a half, till i just realised the cop would keep showing up. There is no way around tickets anymore, either you pay a good lawyer to get it dropped if you have a case or the most he could do also is the same thing you could do plea guilty to a lesser charge.

The system is collapsing, the country is in so much debt, that now they have made even police officers quotas higher, so they have to convict more people and make more money for the system, thats why gas prices, food prices, clothing, everything is going up every year, because Canada is just trying to keep its interest debt in check.

in short, no cop will let any one off in the future, its getting to that point, 10 years ago, 6 out of 10 cops would have let you go for the M1 violation, now none! if you don't want a ticket, just don't get caught simple as that.

ps; you were still lucky, my bike was impounded, and i had to pay $250 for it being impounded for less then 24 hours, then i also had to pay $110 for the M1 fine, and the only thing they reduced was the no suspension because the cop also gave me an unsafe turn on offroad, for pulling to the side of the road for the a hole. oh and i had my M2 at the time, the cop never checked it properly he just saw my old m1 slip with my policy and ownership, and i guess was desperate and issued the ticket, i thought maybe it took a while for the system to update...moral of the story, you feel like you got but raped, trust me there are people out there who get worse, who are probably much nicer then you or me.

good luck though, this is a serious douschebag law, i seen kids in my area, with no helmet, no lights, riding like hooligans 2am at night on bicycles on the road in the on coming directions, and cops pass them not doing anything, then to pull over a motorcycle a block down for tail lights.

The M1 conviction stays on for 2 years.
 
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your license will be suspended for 30 days upon CONVICTION after you turn it in to the MTO. It is the MTO that is suspending you not the courts...the judge has nothing to do with handing out that suspension. If you do not turn in your license it will be suspended for 60 days I believe...Fight the ticket, atleast have it dropped to "Breach of Conditions" rather than the "Breach of Novice conditions" or whatever it you got...Good luck

That is NOT true, suspension on m1 is based on what the court decides not what the MTO does. When your license gets suspended for unpaid fines its the courts that SEND the suspension notice to MTO then the MTO suspends your license, same story with the M1 it is an automatic suspension, unless the courts remove it when you go to court to discuss it. So that is why it is important to go to speak with them even if you are being convicted with the m1 so to atleast they remove the automatic suspension.


So if you just paid the fine, the notice would go to the MTO that you violated the M1 and it would go on your record and also the automatic suspension with that charge, so now your licesnse is suspended, but if you had gone to court to discuss the matter and have the suspension removed or not added, you are fine when the convictions goes through.
 
I tried to explain the situation to the cops, but aside from being extremely rude to me when I wasn't trying to contradict them or argue, they wouldn't even bother to let me explain what happened, and as I quote them, they didn't happen to "give a ****" about it.

Nobody here gives a **** either. That's not a criticism, you're just young and think that explanations matter. All that matters is fixing the problem, the reason why it happened is entirely up to you to examine and learn from, since you are 100% to blame. When you dwell on the explanation it makes people feel like they are supposed to have done something differently, as if you're blaming them. That's why the cops got defensive, and that's why none of the answers in this thread have anything to do with your excuses.
 
All I am saying is that I wasn't senselessly riding at night because I enjoy violating laws. I got stuck out in a situation I wasn't sure what to do in. I had a reason for my actions...

Doesn't matter, and you NEED to fight this. Suspension on a G2/M2 or G2/M1 (depending on how the MTO sees fit) is a BIG deal.
 

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