Ticket with no Section Code
- Thread starter sirio
- Start date
SlowNLow
Banned
This is considered a fatal flaw. What does it say under did commit the offence of? Try and find that EXACT thing int he HTA.... You will not be able to, and as such, without the section the charge does not exist. The crown would NOT be able to convict on that fact. Also, the fact that the section number is missing prevents you from answering the charge against you. This infringes on your section 7 charter rights. My advice. Don't request disclosure. Show up for trial, and BEFORE you plead, say to the JP. I would like to bring forth a motion before the court that the charge against me be quashed as the offence bears a fatal flaw on it's face. You will be asked to point out that flaw. Tell them there is no section number on the offence notice, and that the charge does not exist as written on the ticket, in the HTA.
If they don't throw it out based on that. Then just proceed.
You then have grounds for appeal on two grounds
1. You were unable to answer to the charge against you as you were not informed of that charge.
2. You were unable to make a proper defence to the charge since no charge was listed, you were unable to seek proper disclosure.
Hope this helps.
If they don't throw it out based on that. Then just proceed.
You then have grounds for appeal on two grounds
1. You were unable to answer to the charge against you as you were not informed of that charge.
2. You were unable to make a proper defence to the charge since no charge was listed, you were unable to seek proper disclosure.
Hope this helps.
Salos Dafee
Well-known member
This reminds me of a ticket I defended long ago.
Bailiff: "Mr. Dafee you are charged with violating Bylaw 133
section W chapter 23T paragraph 4 how do you plead?"
(They say it like that, all in one breath.)
Me: I do not know.
Magistrate, as if speaking to a child:
"Mr. Dafee, you have to say Guilty or Not Guilty."
Me: I know that, your worship. I went to City Hall and asked
what that law said, and nobody there could tell me.
If you will tell me what you think I did,
I will tell you whether I think I did it.
Magistrate: That makes sense, Bailiff, find that law
and tell the court what it says, then ask again.
Bailiff: (thumb, thumb, moisten thumb, thumb, thumb ...)
Magistrate: We don't have all day. Mr. Dafee, please sit there.
We will hear one more case and then deal with you next.
----- pause while the next case was heard -----
Magistrate: Bailiff, what is the text of that law?
Bailiff: (still turning pages ) Um, just a moment, please, your worship.
Magistrate: Mr. Dafee, we have no idea what we
think you did, so I am dismissing your case.
(smiling) And don't do it again.
Me, also smiling: Thank you, your worship.
I hope you fare as well. What did I do? Well, I parked between a corner and a sign saying, "No parking here to corner". Please do not rat on me, because I do not want to go back to 1976 and defend that case again.
Bailiff: "Mr. Dafee you are charged with violating Bylaw 133
section W chapter 23T paragraph 4 how do you plead?"
(They say it like that, all in one breath.)
Me: I do not know.
Magistrate, as if speaking to a child:
"Mr. Dafee, you have to say Guilty or Not Guilty."
Me: I know that, your worship. I went to City Hall and asked
what that law said, and nobody there could tell me.
If you will tell me what you think I did,
I will tell you whether I think I did it.
Magistrate: That makes sense, Bailiff, find that law
and tell the court what it says, then ask again.
Bailiff: (thumb, thumb, moisten thumb, thumb, thumb ...)
Magistrate: We don't have all day. Mr. Dafee, please sit there.
We will hear one more case and then deal with you next.
----- pause while the next case was heard -----
Magistrate: Bailiff, what is the text of that law?
Bailiff: (still turning pages ) Um, just a moment, please, your worship.
Magistrate: Mr. Dafee, we have no idea what we
think you did, so I am dismissing your case.
(smiling) And don't do it again.
Me, also smiling: Thank you, your worship.
I hope you fare as well. What did I do? Well, I parked between a corner and a sign saying, "No parking here to corner". Please do not rat on me, because I do not want to go back to 1976 and defend that case again.
Salos Dafee
Well-known member
I don't doubt it! Actually, that TOO reminds me of a ticket, but this time they got me. I parked in London Ontario and overstayed a meter or committed some other rascality, and got a ticket, which escaped my notice for many many months. By and by I wanted to move to USA, and had lots and lots and lotsandlotsandlots of papers to sign and hoops to jump through and sure enough the RCMP would not declare me to be an honest person until I paid that outstanding ticket, for which the statute of limitations had only about 40 days to go. So I paid London some $64 and got my clearance and now here I am, except when I am where you are.
C
cbr125looksfun
Guest
Are you giving truthful advice? If the speeding ticket cites the HTA but does not provide the exact section number (ie, cop doesn't bother to fill it in, or puts in the wrong section number) is that really legitimate grounds for defense?
Also if you tell the JP this is your defense, can he/she just edit the ticket and put in what section the conviction of speeding is from and proceed with the trial?
Metastable
Well-known member
I think what Slownlow put down makes perfect sense. It is one of the few times I wouldn't ask for disclosure ahead of time, because you don't need to remind them of anything. Also, if it doesn't get tossed..... it is grounds for an adjournment so that you can prepare for a defense. This should be seen as the Crown's fault and as a result of the delay in the proceedings, it could give you a better chance to obtain an 11b defense.
SlowNLow
Banned
By failing to put in the section number the offence notice is not citing the HTA.... for example is the ticket says speeding 120kmh in a posted 100 zone, I would task you with trying to find that anywhere in the HTA... the offence does not exist. The cop MUST fill it in for the offence notice to be complete. You are charged with a SECTION of the HTA, not the words the officer writes. The JP does NOT edit the offence notice, only the crown can, and this would cause you undue hardship as the error was clearly on the officer's and crown's part.
Yes, it is a legitimate defense. I have used it, and won with it on several occasions.
Yes, it is a legitimate defense. I have used it, and won with it on several occasions.
Guys I got a ticket with no section but it clearly state "Drive Motor vehicle - no currently validated permit" as per "HTA". Is this still considered fatal error?
HTA section should have been entered as HTA 7(1)(a).
HTA excerpt.
Permit requirements
7. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway unless,
(a) there exists a currently validated permit for the vehicle;
Differs some what is this enough to be considered fatal error?
What is best way to deal with fatal error?
Attachments
Last edited:
Set up a first attendance and present the issue to The Crown. If he's the responsible sort, then he'll drop it on the spot.
