If you are a pro racer and know exactly where you have to stop you will be able to beat it. Any other situation and you won't be able to out brake it. Plus if you panic and grab too much brake you are far less likely to fall over. I believe the official stats are something like a 60% reduction in motorcycle crashes on bikes that have ABS. I know it would've saved my *** a few times in slippery conditions and I know it would likely save me in a severe emergency braking situation that I haven't encountered yet. That said, my bike doesn't have it. I'd like to have it but since selection of used bikes with ABS are still fairly slim I didn't make it a requirement last time I was shopping.
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Thoughts on ABS?
- Thread starter Owlman
- Start date
+1 and outriggers. I don't know if anybody's noticed (hasn't been mentioned in this thread) some bikes tend to lean wayyyy over. Especially so when "cornering".
The stat figures can get very murky when you take into account the types of bikes that have ABS compared to the ones that don't and what is the demographics of those that ride those ABS bikes compared to the ones that ride let's say a 600 Gixxer (the squid bike of all)
It's like saying ABS in cars is good because there is a significant reduction in crashes on an ABS Lincoln Town Car compared to all other cars - 89.6 buyers are Senior Citizens. Get my point?
The thing with stats is that you can mold them to make your point specially when conveniently leaving a few facts off the table.. not saying you, just generally.
I am a big fan of technology, My race bike has traction control and all the gadgets, ABS is not one of those things I am fond off as I like the full ability, reaction and consequence of braking in my two fingers.
It's like saying ABS in cars is good because there is a significant reduction in crashes on an ABS Lincoln Town Car compared to all other cars - 89.6 buyers are Senior Citizens. Get my point?
The thing with stats is that you can mold them to make your point specially when conveniently leaving a few facts off the table.. not saying you, just generally.
I am a big fan of technology, My race bike has traction control and all the gadgets, ABS is not one of those things I am fond off as I like the full ability, reaction and consequence of braking in my two fingers.
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Give me a middle weight (say 650cc twin) bike with ABS, TCS, and Parker's RADD3 front end, and I'll be ecstatic.
I believe specific comparisons were made between comparable models with and without ABS (e.g. in cases where it was an option, or in cases where an otherwise-same-model bike was available without one year and with the next year).
I am in favor of having ABS on a street bike.
A common argument that the detractors use is that "a pro rider can out-brake ABS". Well ... Maybe. In an idealized set of circumstances, where that pro rider has the opportunity to do a number of practice runs to feel for the available traction, perhaps. In the real world, when that car turns left in front of your path, you don't have the opportunity for that practice run, AND your fight-or-flight instinctive reactions take over. Those instinctive reactions will go one of two ways: "OMG I don't want to fall down" so you under-brake and hit the car, and "OMG I need to brake as hard as possible" so you reef the brakes as hard as you can and lock them up or go over the handlebars. ABS gives the confidence for the rider to not worry about either set of circumstances. Trust me, there is no "modulating the brake" or "threshold braking" when there is a car across your path that you know you're going to hit. I've been there. At the time, I had 15 years of roadracing experience. I hit the car with the front wheel locked, the rear wheel in the air, and in the process of tucking the front end.
Now as for that pro rider out-performing the ABS ... Maybe, on the older technology systems. I now own my first street bike that has ABS, and it is a modern advanced system. The old systems were only capable of switching the brake caliper pressure between whatever pressure you were applying, and zero. The new advanced systems are capable of modulating that pressure faster than any rider could ever humanly achieve. There is no more chattering, no more upsetting the suspension, no more vibration at the brake lever. The bike just STOPS.
There is a cost factor. It is cheaper than a replacement set of bodywork (by a lot).
There is a "something to go wrong" factor. In half a million kilometers and nearing 10 years of driving ABS-equipped cars, I've had exactly one wheel speed sensor go bad. And that's something subjected to salt water immersion in winter, a factor that a motorcycles likely will have minimal or no exposure to.
I am too. I'm pretty sure I couldn't out brake abs in unknown conditions. How many people ride with abs that never gets activated? Why? Because sensible riding is why. Could a car jump out in front of you someday to the degree that you couldn't handle it without abs assistance? Sure. For that we need every bike legislated to abs? Standard brakes are better, tires are miracle these days, speed limits are abysmally slow. What's changed? Oh ya, we're catering to the lowest common denominator now. If this were isolated, maybe fine, but this onslaught of rider aids is as bogus as 200hp motorcycles. And it just keeps getting retarderer by the year. People need to get back to real.
Actually, the stats showing reduction of crashes and claims by >30% come from the same model bike with or without ABS. No murk.
ABS in cars is listed as the #1 reason for a consistent drop in car crashes and fatalities as they take over the fleet on highways.
Keith Code went 100% ABS at CSBS, saw a drop in crashes by 40%, despite more powerful bikes.
But that's just science.
This is like helmets. Same arguments all over. EU will be 100% ABS by 2017, by law. For those who understand how it works, it will not impact those with mad skillz. It will be law here soon because the numbers are striking.
The real world has rain and oil and antifreeze on roads, and yes, even experienced riders can panic brake.
People forget busy days in summer on the 401 when cars used to spin out and collect 3-4 more cars because of locked brakes. Today a guy in an F150 can just hammer the pedal and stop in full control faster than most bikes.
The only thing murky is quality of ABS, and whether a bike has cornering ABS or not. On track bikes, optional, but that's a predictable controlled environment.
#1 - I did not see a link on the post I quoted and made a comment on, so unless there is a magical link I miss, I am not sure how you guys can comment on his stats!
#2 - ABS in cars and ABS in bikes are 2 total different topics and I responded to the topic at hand. I agree with ABS in cars by the way.
#3 - Couldn't care less what Keith Code did, his reasons could have been insurance reasons or others we don't know. If you can 100% correlate the reduction in crashes to ABS then we can talk, but there are too many variables (people, bikes with TC etc) for you or I to say.
#4 - The OP asked for our thoughts, just because yours are different than mine makes you feel like you can be a dick about it?
Relax dude, this is just a forum, you don't need to always be right lol. Maybe you need to go drink a coffee
#2 - ABS in cars and ABS in bikes are 2 total different topics and I responded to the topic at hand. I agree with ABS in cars by the way.
#3 - Couldn't care less what Keith Code did, his reasons could have been insurance reasons or others we don't know. If you can 100% correlate the reduction in crashes to ABS then we can talk, but there are too many variables (people, bikes with TC etc) for you or I to say.
#4 - The OP asked for our thoughts, just because yours are different than mine makes you feel like you can be a dick about it?
Relax dude, this is just a forum, you don't need to always be right lol. Maybe you need to go drink a coffee
Passed quite a few bmws on the brakes at bogie this past weekend. Their abs goes off and I would go right on by with the rear stepping from side to side.
'Bogie the track, or 'Bogie the town? Big difference between frost heaved roads and a racetrack.
Legislated? No, I don't think so. Is it a good idea because virtually no one on this board can outperform it in regular (ie. unknown) street conditions? Certainly. Is it a dangerous thing to have that's going to kill you? Certainly not, despite how some people here seem to feel.
sharkmotorcycle
Well-known member
More than 5000 people die in motorcycle crashes everyyear. ABS is best option to cut your risk. With anti lock brakes, You can brake fully without fear of locking up.
RedDogDarren
Well-known member
I tried man, I can't raise the average by myself.
RedDogDarren
Well-known member
I had ABS on my first bike (CBR500R) and don't have it on my current FZ8.
On the CBR I may have felt it acting once or twice in the 3500kms I put on it. I know I've locked the rear on the FZ8 about as many times in 6000kms. None of these incidents were panic/I'm going to die type things but, IMO, it's a nice to have safety-net. Were I to buy new, it would definitely play a part in my decision.
One more point: I ride my bike in dry conditions and on (reasonably) well maintained asphalt roads. If I rode every day, in all weather and in most all temperatures or on roads that were less than ideal I would make ABS and perhaps even TC (and any other technology that would help me keep the rubber down) a requirement as part of a new bike purchase.
On the CBR I may have felt it acting once or twice in the 3500kms I put on it. I know I've locked the rear on the FZ8 about as many times in 6000kms. None of these incidents were panic/I'm going to die type things but, IMO, it's a nice to have safety-net. Were I to buy new, it would definitely play a part in my decision.
One more point: I ride my bike in dry conditions and on (reasonably) well maintained asphalt roads. If I rode every day, in all weather and in most all temperatures or on roads that were less than ideal I would make ABS and perhaps even TC (and any other technology that would help me keep the rubber down) a requirement as part of a new bike purchase.
Ah no you can not brake fully, locking is not the only problem.
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