The Twinkie is dead.

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I'm gonna start trafficking Twinkies to the States immediately.
 
According to Forbes: "Hostess has been sold at least three times since the 1980s, racking up debt and shedding profitable assets along the way with each successive merger. The company filed for bankruptcy in 2004, and again in 2011."

Despite this, management all got hefty raises.

I question that this rests solely on the workers and their unions. Seems a lot more like mis-management for years.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Classical example of that. Quick to attack a unionized employee for making a living wage or for getting a free root canal but perfectly happy with the fact that there are families that make more in a year than 2,000,000 average Canadians. They must be working EXTRA hard for that money and those lazy bums who wanna work 40 hours a week, own a home and retire without eating cat food should be shot to death!
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Uhm, no. You said they were starving and I'm challenging that. Not exactly a class warfare type of question, no matter how much you wish it to be.
 
When do you say enough us enough when it comes to cuts? Should we go below minimum wage just to keep management's fat bonus? Way to many underestimate the importance of manufacturing.
 
fastar1 said:
Uhm, no. You said they were starving and I'm challenging that. Not exactly a class warfare type of question, no matter how much you wish it to be.
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I didn't say they were starving but it's becoming a lot harder for your average wage slave to make ends meet. That's the point I'm trying to make. Union shops are just less amenable to turning their members into working poor but that's why there has been a constant smear campaign against unionized labor in right wing media. Costs of living go up and by a lot more than the published inflation figures. Wages don't go up and those people are supposed to happily accept for their wages to go down? They were even willing to compromise, but it's easier to gut the company, give yourself a fat bonus and blame the union.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
I didn't say they were starving but it's becoming a lot harder for your average wage slave to make ends meet. That's the point I'm trying to make. Union shops are just less amenable to turning their members into working poor but that's why there has been a constant smear campaign against unionized labor in right wing media. Costs of living go up and by a lot more than the published inflation figures. Wages don't go up and those people are supposed to happily accept for their wages to go down? They were even willing to compromise, but it's easier to gut the company, give yourself a fat bonus and blame the union.
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You did say they are left to starve;
FiReSTaRT said:
Yes.. The ruling class has less of a need of a middle class nowadays, so they don't have to give a living wage to quite so many. That means that fewer will get to eat, retire, be able to afford decent level of health care or educate their children. The new reality is that labor elsewhere is cheaper and we will not take measures to keep the jobs here. We will accept that it's because we're lazy as we work harder and longer hours, that we shouldn't expect a living wage as it's better to work and starve than not work and starve and that we just aren't productive enough as our productivity increases with each passing year.
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And now you're suggesting that executive bonuses are tied to the number of jobs they cut. I'd like to know what media you're getting that from too.
 
Nyx13 said:
According to Forbes: "Hostess has been sold at least three times since the 1980s, racking up debt and shedding profitable assets along the way with each successive merger. The company filed for bankruptcy in 2004, and again in 2011."

Despite this, management all got hefty raises.

I question that this rests solely on the workers and their unions. Seems a lot more like mis-management for years.
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I'd guess this is closer to the reason why it's going under. Whether or not a reorganization works, management typically is able to extract some hefty bonuses each time.
 
Maybe the US Government will step with a bail out from the tax payers like they did with GM...lol
 
Nyx13 said:
According to Forbes: "Hostess has been sold at least three times since the 1980s, racking up debt and shedding profitable assets along the way with each successive merger. The company filed for bankruptcy in 2004, and again in 2011."

Despite this, management all got hefty raises.

I question that this rests solely on the workers and their unions. Seems a lot more like mis-management for years.
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This reminds me of Bain Capital, the "company" that Romney started. Disgusting POS.
 
fastar1 said:
You did say they are left to starve;
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Are you for real dude? If you're gonna nitpick instead of facing the facts, you should read what I wrote first. Bottom line: you have no real facts to counter my overall statement that poverty is trending up and will continue trending if we keep going our merry way - so you're nitpicking my statements and either displaying a lack of proper reading skills or other underlying issues while you're at it, but keep'em coming :cool:

P.S. Read what I said. Your nitpicking is still flying shy of its mark
 
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FiReSTaRT said:
Are you for real dude? If you're gonna nitpick instead of facing the facts, you should read what I wrote first. Bottom line: you have no real facts to counter my overall statement that poverty is trending up and will continue trending if we keep going our merry way - so you're nitpicking my statements and either displaying a lack of proper reading skills or other underlying issues while you're at it, but keep'em coming :cool:

P.S. Read what I said. Your nitpicking is still flying shy of its mark
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That nitpicking is the difference between class warfare, and just the harsh realities of business.

I don't disagree with your overall statement, just the tone of it. You seem to want to paint the 'ruling class' as evil, when it's the system that simply needs reform.
 
I honestly don't see "bloodsucking unions" or "evil corporations".
I just see 2 sides that made a deal, with someone trying to reneg on the deal.

the courts shouldn't be rescuing companies from unsustainable deals they made, if they can't survive with their contracts... so be it, thats capitalism. Anything else is corporate welfare.
 
fastar1 said:
That nitpicking is the difference between class warfare, and just the harsh realities of business.

I don't disagree with your overall statement, just the tone of it. You seem to want to paint the 'ruling class' as evil, when it's the system that simply needs reform.
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That's something we can agree on. The system is broken and it does need a reform. If the system that is supposed to benefit all of us is only benefiting a minuscule portion of the population, then it needs an overhaul.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
That's something we can agree on. The system is broken and it does need a reform. If the system that is supposed to benefit all of us is only benefiting a minuscule portion of the population, then it needs an overhaul.
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Considering the massive abuse of resources in the western world compared to other countries and the solution seems to be lower expectations for both workers and investers. If investment returns drop the market crashes and so do the pension plans. Enjoy.
 
Agreed. It's not the unions. It's the governments western governments creating debt and printing money which is making everything expensive. If you think I am wrong, then ask yourself why are all these products made in China not made here?



OpenGambit said:
I honestly don't see "bloodsucking unions" or "evil corporations".
I just see 2 sides that made a deal, with someone trying to reneg on the deal.

the courts shouldn't be rescuing companies from unsustainable deals they made, if they can't survive with their contracts... so be it, thats capitalism. Anything else is corporate welfare.
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Just bought a box of Twinkies yesterday, there's plenty on the shelves. Twinkies will be the new Cuban cigars for American visitors.
 
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