Temporary insurance?

[Jay Alexander]

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And commercial driving experience doesn't apply?
How is driving the SAME car not experience?
When I bought motorcycle insurance, the speeding tickets i got in the cab sure did apply to the rating of the motorcycle insurance, the seat belt tickets did not. (And funny thing: when buying taxi insurance nobody cares that you have 4 small speeding tickets, cab drivers get tickets, but when applying for motorcycle or private car insurance you get treated like typhoid Mary if you have ONE)
When I bought motorcycle insurance I was asked if i had been in ANY at fault collisions/pay outs in the last 5 years... no exclusion of commercial driving, or private car driving.
For your average cab driver, a pay out for a collision doesn't go on their record because they don't own the car or the policy. In MY case, I DID own the car(s), I DID own the policies... and the pay out record of my many drivers went on MY insurance record too. If one of my drivers got into an at fault in one of MY cars, that went on MY insurance exposure, not the drivers.
Whether or not "experience" is accepted is up to the underwriter, not the broker.

Claims occured driving commercial vehicles do not impact rates when you insure your personal passenger vehicle.

Convictions are a different story. These are two different things. Claims are accidents (or thefts or whatever), while convictions are rated on your entire license. You get a speeding ticket while riding your motorcycle? It goes on your entire license, which has your G,M, whatever other classes you may have.

The rules for what gets rated is the same across all insurers across Ontario, based on the OAP 1. How they get rated is up to each private insurer.

The broker does not rate the risks. The broker is simply the middleman between you and the insurance company. The insurance company is the one who rates the risks.

 

[PrivatePilot]

This is not true. By law, insurers can't do this. They are not allowed to use lapse in insurance coverage as a rating factor, unless it has to do with suspensions, cancellations for non-payment, illegal activities or other factors. Normal gap in coverage like simply not owning a bike for a season or two technically should not have an impact on the rating.

So, I did some more reading on this and it's....grey when it comes to motorcycles. The law amendments that refer to these restrictions repeatedly refer to "automobile" coverage, which I beleive excludes motorcycles, and it also mentions the following, specifically the bold portion:

The following are examples of criteria insurers can consider in determining automobile insurance rates:

the length of time a person has held a driver's license
the number of at-fault accidents
whether a person has been a named insured or a listed driver on an automobile insurance policy.

So, it contradicts itself, and seems to suggest that, yes indeed, failing to maintain a policy can result in an increase in rates. Now, the grey area seems to be where they might be getting the "gotcha" moment as it seems open to interpretation the difference between "automobile" and "motorcycle" I'm guessing.

We need an insurnace broker in the thread to clarify this lol.

Claims occured driving commercial vehicles do not impact rates

Careful with that blanket statement. A privately owned pickup truck with black plates vs blue is a "commercial vehicle" in the eyes of the law, hence the entire black plate thing. Walk up and down a few streets anywhere in the province and you'll find black plated pickup trucks in lots of driveways owned by people who just use them as grocery getters and commuter vehicles.

 

[Jay Alexander]

So, I did some more reading on this and it's....grey when it comes to motorcycles. The law amendments that refer to these restrictions repeatedly refer to "automobile" coverage, which I beleive excludes motorcycles, and it also mentions the following, specifically the bold portion:



So, it contradicts itself, and seems to suggest that, yes indeed, failing to maintain a policy can result in an increase in rates. Now, the grey area seems to be where they might be getting the "gotcha" moment as it seems open to interpretation the difference between "automobile" and "motorcycle" I'm guessing.

We need an insurnace broker in the thread to clarify this lol.



Careful with that blanket statement. A privately owned pickup truck with black plates vs blue is a "commercial vehicle" in the eyes of the law, hence the entire black plate thing. Walk up and down a few streets anywhere in the province and you'll find black plated pickup trucks in lots of driveways owned by people who just use them as grocery getters and commuter vehicles.

Check here.

The courts already discussed this issue. Motorcycle is included in the standard OAP 1.

The fact that certain people have commercially-rated vehicles with black plates being driven for other purposes will always be a thing, while people try and find loopholes to pay less money.

 

[Relax]

Claims occured driving commercial vehicles do not impact rates when you insure your personal passenger vehicle.

This would make sense if the commercial vehicle is insured under the company as opposed to the driver.
Claims impact the policy. Convictions impact the driver.

 

[timtune]

I asked my broker.
When I stopped driving cabs, I kept one of my cars and tried to get it insured as a private car... and was getting INSANE quotes. More than what I was paying for the same car to be a taxi.
It seems the insurance companies wouldn't take driving a cab as experience, it had been 20 years since I had a private car (why would I want a private car when I owned 5 licensed, insured taxi cabs?). Their line was driving a taxi is not comparable to driving a private car.
My broker made a couple of phone calls and i got insurance. It helps when you have a broker that knows what he's doing and is on your side.
The 23 month thing came up in conversation came up in conversation and that's what he told me. He's never lied to me before or since... I've known the guy for almost 50 years and he's owned a brokerage for 45 of those years. I believe him. You don't have to.

A car, a sled, an RV and 3 bikes all insured but I don't qualify for a multi vehicle discount with desjardin**. Gotta love the insurance game.

** only "conventional" vehicles count towards MV discount and only the car is a conventional vehicle.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Check here.

The courts already discussed this issue. Motorcycle is included in the standard OAP 1.

The fact that certain people have commercially-rated vehicles with black plates being driven for other purposes will always be a thing, while people try and find loopholes to pay less money.

The mto won't give you blue plates for a pick up truck I have tried.

Sent from the future

 

[timtune]

The mto won't give you blue plates for a pick up truck I have tried.

Sent from the future

You sure. My buddy has them but he also has a some small sticker attached that mentions something about the prohibition.

 

[PrivatePilot]

They're not supposed to issue blue plates for pickup trucks but at one point in the past there was some loophole where if you lowered the registered weight below that of the truck itself, and found someone at the MTO willing to do that, you could get it to a point where it was considered a "passenger vehicle" in the system and they could issue a blue plate. Pretty sure they don't allow that anymore. Either that, or it was a mistake.

This is the sticker they put on all black plate pickups used for grocery getter duties vs actual real world commecial service.

 

[Jay Alexander]

This would make sense if the commercial vehicle is insured under the company as opposed to the driver.
Claims impact the policy. Convictions impact the driver.

Claims follow the driver and impact the premium on the policy. So do convictions. Exact same thing.

Only difference is convictions appear on your MVR (motor vehicle report from MTO), while claims appear on your AutoPlus (claims history shared among insurers).

What impacts the policy are the listed drivers on that policy.

 

[GreyGhost]

The mto won't give you blue plates for a pick up truck I have tried.

Sent from the future

Custom plates on pickups are blue.

 

[bitzz]

The FACT that some people have commercially plated pick ups or vans has to do with Ontario vehicle licensing.
You can't license a vehicle over a certain GVW (gross vehicle weight), that only has seat belts for the front seats as a passenger vehicle.... in the end what decides is if there is a OEM seatbelt behind the driver's seat... doesn't have to have a chair, just a belt.
You CAN insure a commercial vehicle as a passenger vehicle (MUCH cheaper), but you could lose GVW, IIRC you are limited to 4500kg... so if you have a Dodge Ram Crew cab and a fat wife... you're probably overweight. (Which I find odd in my case. I have a Astro cargo van (only two seat belts) with a GVW of less than 4500kg, but I have a Personal Use Only endorsement... which makes the GVW 4500kg. I gained GVW).
Insurance companies consider policy non payment as fraud because of the way Canada handles "debt".
If you got get a binder (a new policy) and give the agent a NSF check, it takes the check a week to bounce, a week to process the non payment, then the insurance company has to cancel the policy by sending a registered letter giving you 14 days to pay or be cancelled... so far you have had insurance for 5 weeks without paying. Theft of services or by another name: Fraud.

 

[Relax]

Claims follow the driver and impact the premium on the policy. So do convictions. Exact same thing.

Only difference is convictions appear on your MVR (motor vehicle report from MTO), while claims appear on your AutoPlus (claims history shared among insurers).

What impacts the policy are the listed drivers on that policy.

Then how is this possible?

Claims occured driving commercial vehicles do not impact rates when you insure your personal passenger vehicle.

 

[PrivatePilot]

You CAN insure a commercial vehicle as a passenger vehicle (MUCH cheaper), but you could lose GVW, IIRC you are limited to 4500kg... so if you have a Dodge Ram Crew cab and a fat wife... you're probably overweight. (Which I find odd in my case. I have a Astro cargo van (only two seat belts) with a GVW of less than 4500kg, but I have a Personal Use Only endorsement... which makes the GVW 4500kg. I gained GVW).

With pickup trucks you can change the registered GVW to whatever you want. I had my 1 ton diesel dually registered for 8K GRW at one point and got tired of the insane plate sticker costs (north of $500 IIRC), so I lowered it at one point to 1000kg once even though the truck has a GVWR of over 5000kg And the truck weighed many times that empty. At that point I could have got blue plates if I wanted.

Legal? Questionable. Does anyone care? Not really. The person at the Service Ontario never bat an eye, and the OPP or whatever aren't running around worried about registered gross weights on most pickup trucks unless you're actually using the truck commercially to the point where you're having to go through inspection stations etc.

 

[Jay Alexander]

If you got get a binder (a new policy) and give the agent a NSF check, it takes the check a week to bounce, a week to process the non payment, then the insurance company has to cancel the policy by sending a registered letter giving you 14 days to pay or be cancelled... so far you have had insurance for 5 weeks without paying. Theft of services or by another name: Fraud.

For something to be fraud, there must be intention. When you use the term cancellation for non-payment, that means it is cancelled due to failure to pay. For an analogy, there is murder with intent, and murder without intent (also known as manslaughter). They are different things.

Then how is this possible?

Commercially-rated/fleet vehicles history is not the same as PPA. A claim arising in a commercial policy has no impact on a PPA, and will also not show up on an AuoPlus report.

 

[boyoboy]

be nice to your agent; I once left my insurance off my bike for a couple months and she told me not to do that as it could get expensive to restart..then she got on the computer and fixed things for me and my new bike..

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