Swarm of motorcyclezw spotted in gta

[conundrum]

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Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Actually an 80 zone, and if you look here, there is no visibility concerns. The turning driver misjudged the closing speed, or didn't look beyond the 10ft in front of his car. Anyway, they're both responsible for their respective fates, but yeah, the missile more so IMO



Again, what does a massive group ride have in common with a 200kph boy racer? Absolutely NOTHING...

Like I said earlier, just the new GTAM go to for soapbox shock.

Granted it doesn't have anything directly related, but it is still an example of someone saying 'screw all rules' and paying for it in the end. Based on some of the replies here, it seems as if Roadghost and some others are in support of what they did, because 'screw the law' and that if anything happens, it's not the riders fault, it's the other guy.

 

[clyder]

Re: Swarm of motorcycles spotted in gta

Maybe another group of 200+ riders should do a ride to denounce the actions of the previous riders and to bring proper road awareness...just sayin'

That's a great idea. You could take the lead on the project and @Joe Bass and GTAM could be promoting it. Now I say, to denounce that reckless behaviour within our community we ride on major highway like the 401and at not more than 50 km/h. I know cagers will be angry at us (once again) but once they understand our cause, they will let it their anger and eventually support us. That's how me make an impact and a difference
... Oh yeah, and someone needs to make a statement on TV too ...

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[Roadghost]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Oh the irony. The stats that confirm your premise, are figments of your imagination. Well, someone else's imagination, since this concept has been around for a long time.

See if you can find any stats that back up your claim. It'll be fun.

Well since you asked for it, here it is:
http://isddc.dot.gov/OLPFiles/NHTSA/013695.pdf

I read that study back in the 1980s and did a research paper motorcycle safety. It is a very, very good read:

"Research Findinqs. The most common motorcycle accident involves another vehicle causing the collision by violating the right-of-way of the motorcycle at an intersection, usually by turning left in front of the oncoming motorcycle because the car driver did not see the motorcycle."

 

[griff2]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Well since you asked for it, here it is:
http://isddc.dot.gov/OLPFiles/NHTSA/013695.pdf

I read that study back in the 1980s and did a research paper motorcycle safety. It is a very, very good read:

Why not quote something that is more applicable to Ontario road and traffic conditions, and more recent as well?

 

[-D-]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Why not quote something that is more applicable to Ontario road and traffic conditions, and more recent as well?

Ride a bike = higher chance of injury or death vs. driving a car

Mind Blown!

end of all future research and waste of tax $

 

[Roadghost]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Why not quote something that is more applicable to Ontario road and traffic conditions, and more recent as well?

The Hurt Study was used to implement legislation in Ontario. Read the study. It concludes that its findings are universal, that other jurisdictions show no different characteristics and I challenge you to tell me what has changed since 1980?

 

[griff2]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Ride a bike = higher chance of injury or death vs. driving a car

Mind Blown!

end of all future research and waste of tax $

Ride a bike stupidly or aggressively, and those chances get even that much higher than they already are.

ORSAR reports from 2010 to 2013 inclusive outline that:

• 40% of rider fatalities happen as a result of single vehicle crashes. No other car or truck involved, just the motorcycle.
• "Speed too fast and loss of control" are a factor in about half of Ontario rider fatalities over that period.
• Other rider error comes in at 18%.
• Impaired over 80 BAC at 12%, and alcohol use under 80 BAC at 9%.

The biggest threat killing riders out on the road is usually not other vehicles. It is riders themselves and their stupid/reckless/irresponsible riding choices.

 

[griff2]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

The Hurt Study was used to implement legislation in Ontario. Read the study. It concludes that its findings are universal, that other jurisdictions show no different characteristics and I challenge you to tell me what has changed since 1980?

SIXTEEN years ago, the editors from the Motorcycle Safety Foundation wrote, in preparing the National Agenda for Motorcycle Safety:[4]

[TABLE="class: cquote"]
[TR]
[TD]“[/TD]
[TD]It was apparent that our effectiveness would be limited by a consistent lack of viable, current research in most subjects related to motorcycling safety. Wide-ranging changes in motorcycling and related factors have altered the motorcycling landscape since the Hurt Report so thoroughly that it is impossible to determine if the findings of past studies are still valid.[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The National Agenda for Motorcycle Safety study cited a broad list of changes that have occurred that affect the current validity of the Hurt Report, broken into four categories:

• Motorcycle Engineering Changes
• User Population Changes
• Automobile Engineering Changes
• Roadway Environmental Changes

I'd think that things have changed even more in the sixteen years since that statement was made.

 

[Neil_V]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Ride a bike stupidly or aggressively, and those chances get even that much higher than they already are.

ORSAR reports from 2010 to 2013 inclusive outline that:

• 40% of rider fatalities happen as a result of single vehicle crashes. No other car or truck involved, just the motorcycle.
• "Speed too fast and loss of control" are a factor in about half of Ontario rider fatalities over that period.
• Other rider error comes in at 18%.
• Impaired over 80 BAC at 12%, and alcohol use under 80 BAC at 9%.

The biggest threat killing riders out on the road is usually not other vehicles. It is riders themselves and their stupid/reckless/irresponsible riding choices.

Seriously though, do you even ride? Or leave your basement outside of inspecting walmart parking lots for signs of tire induced damage?

Interestingly someone else (or maybe you) posted an article recently where the OPP stated alcohol is not a problem they see with motorcyclist

Speed is listed as a factor in about every collision press release ever, regardless of vehicle type so I take that with a grain of salt.

Sure rider error is often a factor, but to perpetually carry on with this "it's all stupid riders" rhetoric again and again? Really, why are you even on a motorcycle forum, hating on seemingly everything motorcycle?

 

[griff2]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Seriously though, do you even ride? Or leave your basement outside of inspecting walmart parking lots for signs of tire induced damage?

Interestingly someone else (or maybe you) posted an article recently where the OPP stated alcohol is not a problem they see with motorcyclist

Speed is listed as a factor in about every collision press release ever, regardless of vehicle type so I take that with a grain of salt.

Sure rider error is often a factor, but to perpetually carry on with this "it's all stupid riders" rhetoric again and again? Really, why are you even on a motorcycle forum, hating on seemingly everything motorcycle?

I enjoy riding. I deplore irresponsible riding, and irresponsible driving too. Neither has anything to do with hating motorcycles or cars. It has to do with deploring the stupid riders and drivers that plague the roads that I and other more responsible road users are also on.

Police cite speed as a factor only when that speed has played a direct role in either crash causation or crash effect exacerbation.

Regarding what you think the OPP said about motorcycles and impaired driving and speed, Canada Motoguide http://canadamotoguide.com/2014/08/21/motorcycle-deaths-headed-towards-seven-year-high-says-opp/ published the following two years ago:

The OPP also shared some other interesting stats. They said 50 of those 175 accidents (on OPP-patrolled roads between 2008 and 2014) were caused when the motorcyclist was riding properly at the time; in other words, they were killed by an inattentive cager. And of those 175 crashes, the OPP said 158 of them happened on dry roads, so slippery pavement isn’t a huge factor in rider deaths.

Of the 175 motorcycle deaths, 156 were male riders, with only 19 female fatalities. The OPP reckons speed was a factor in 43 of the fatalities, and “loss of control” caused 29 deaths. Alcohol was a factor in 21 of the deaths, failure to yield caused 20 crashes, and inattention caused 18 crashes.

Think about those numbers and how they compare to so many claims here that cagers are out to get us. The rider was operating properly in only 50 out of the 175 fatalities, leaving 125 where the rider was not operating properly. Only 50 (according to Motoguide) of the 175 caused by inattentive cagers.

For a community that bemoans rider fatalities, much of that community seems loathe to point the finger at the greatest threat facing riders, and that is riders themselves.

 

[Rossi86]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

When you loan out your vehicle, that too is an action you should be held legally accountable for. A number of sections of the HTA already hold the owner responsible for various things even if they are not actually behind the wheel when an offence occurs.

That list of sections should be expanded so that an owner is responsible for defending against all moving violations even if they were not operating the vehicle at the time an offence occurred. The only out should be if someone else would step up and admit they were the operator at the time of offence.

Is this Turbodish or his clone?

 

[Neil_V]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

I enjoy riding. I deplore irresponsible riding, and irresponsible driving too. Neither has anything to do with hating motorcycles or cars. It has to do with deploring the stupid riders and drivers that plague the roads that I and other more responsible road users are also on.

Yet I can't think of a post where you talk about a positive riding experience... Just saying..

Regarding what you think the OPP said about motorcycles and impaired driving and speed, Canada Motoguide http://canadamotoguide.com/2014/08/21/motorcycle-deaths-headed-towards-seven-year-high-says-opp/ published the following two years ago:

As for the reference I made to the OPP, it was alcohol, which the snip you just posted says nothing about. Anyway, I was just pointing it out.

Think about those numbers and how they compare to so many claims here that cagers are out to get us. The rider was operating properly in only 50 out of the 175 fatalities, leaving 125 where the rider was not operating properly. Only 50 (according to Motoguide) of the 175 caused by inattentive cagers.

I personally don't buy the old "it's not usually the riders fault", and have never propagated that fallacy. But I certainly don't agree with the mandates/solutions/ideas you commonly push, nor the notion that we're the biggest problem we face.

One thing that needs to be taken away from that article you keep posting is the OPP's numbers are going to be primarily rural, which skew numbers greatly in favour of single vehicle collisions, regardless of vehicle type.

For a community that bemoans rider fatalities, much of that community seems loathe to point the finger at the greatest threat facing riders, and that is riders themselves.

Bemoan rider fatalities? Just want to point out it's you who is most active in that particular sub forum, and often first to start a discussion about who to blame. It actually comes off as proud display.

 

[huhsure]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

griff, please never change. Everyone else, please never stop responding. I can always use a morning laugh.

 

[ReSTored]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

The bottom line is that politicians love simple problems and simple solutions, in particular if the affected party(ies) are poorly organized or irrelevant to their elected position. Drivers and riders who cruised around at 200km, popped wheelies on local highways and a few spectacular "street racing" accidents with multiple fatalities are primarily responsible for the "50 over" seizure laws widely supported by ordinary law abiding and politician electing citizens.

The Mississauga Motorcycle Mob (let's call them the 3M, MMM or Triple M......) likely had a great time, but they contributed significantly to poor optics surrounding riders in general and reinforce for ordinary citizens why seizure or stunt riding laws are in place. The more incidents like this we have the more likely it is politicians will seek new ways of slapping this type of behavior down. We can be our own worse enemy.

 

[griff2]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Bemoan rider fatalities? Just want to point out it's you who is most active in that particular sub forum, and often first to start a discussion about who to blame. It actually comes off as proud display.

I have only posted the news I see as it comes in, and have never started a discussion as to blame in that sub-forum, or participated in such discussion started by others. That you might see that as some sort of "proud display" points more to your thinking than mine.

Still, have a look at the last 10 postings in that sub-forum and think for yourself where the prime causation of crash or exacerbation of those 10 random crashes sit. Ending denial starts with opening your eyes.

 

[Neil_V]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

I have only posted the news I see as it comes in, and have never started a discussion as to blame in that sub-forum, or participated in such discussion started by others. That you might see that as some sort of "proud display" points more to your thinking than mine.

Still, have a look at the last 10 postings in that sub-forum and think for yourself where the prime causation of crash or exacerbation of those 10 random crashes sit. Ending denial starts with opening your eyes.

I was not referring to that sub-forum in particular when referencing discussions started, or your general points in said discussions.. But whatever man, I just find your general discourse contemptuous at best, and it's not as though I'm the only one who feels that way.

 

[griff2]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

I was not referring to that sub-forum in particular when referencing discussions started, or your general points in said discussions.. But whatever man, I just find your general discourse contemptuous at best, and it's not as though I'm the only one who feels that way.

Sorry that some don't like hard truths. I supposes it's easier to point the finger at left turners, rear-enders, and SMIDSYs than it is to look inward at one's own riding practices and attitudes.

 

[Baggsy]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Well since you asked for it, here it is:
http://isddc.dot.gov/OLPFiles/NHTSA/013695.pdf

I read that study back in the 1980s and did a research paper motorcycle safety. It is a very, very good read:

Good. Good. Now look precisely at what they said, and tell me why your conclusion based on what they said, is wrong.


"Research Findinqs. The most common motorcycle accident involves another vehicle causing the collision by violating the right-of-way of the motorcycle at an intersection, usually by turning left in front of the oncoming motorcycle because the car driver did not see the motorcycle."

 

[kwtoxman]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Ride a bike stupidly or aggressively, and those chances get even that much higher than they already are.

ORSAR reports from 2010 to 2013 inclusive outline that:

• 40% of rider fatalities happen as a result of single vehicle crashes. No other car or truck involved, just the motorcycle.
• "Speed too fast and loss of control" are a factor in about half of Ontario rider fatalities over that period.
• Other rider error comes in at 18%.
• Impaired over 80 BAC at 12%, and alcohol use under 80 BAC at 9%.

The biggest threat killing riders out on the road is usually not other vehicles. It is riders themselves and their stupid/reckless/irresponsible riding choices.

You are pretty pathetic. Such statistics are in the realm of all vehicles, not just motorcycles. There's the rub that you conveniently ignore in your sad diatribes.

The DOT BTS reports it notes that 59% of all fatalities happen as a result of single vehicle crashes regardless of type of vehicle. So motorcycles actually under-represent fatalities in single vehicle crashes and other sources of fatalities are higher. Wow, motorcycle riders are better drivers than the rest of people out there. Not surprisingly, those other stats compare even worse with passenger vehicles as well. Impaired fatalities are far higher on a percent basis for passenger vehicles (over 2X). Speed and loss of control have been in a similar range and were likely higher for vehicles as well (at least until stability control became mandatory in passenger vehicles).

I enjoy riding. I deplore irresponsible riding, and irresponsible driving too. Neither has anything to do with hating motorcycles or cars. It has to do with deploring the stupid riders and drivers that plague the roads that I and other more responsible road users are also on.

Police cite speed as a factor only when that speed has played a direct role in either crash causation or crash effect exacerbation.

Regarding what you think the OPP said about motorcycles and impaired driving and speed, Canada Motoguide http://canadamotoguide.com/2014/08/21/motorcycle-deaths-headed-towards-seven-year-high-says-opp/ published the following two years ago:


Think about those numbers and how they compare to so many claims here that cagers are out to get us. The rider was operating properly in only 50 out of the 175 fatalities, leaving 125 where the rider was not operating properly. Only 50 (according to Motoguide) of the 175 caused by inattentive cagers.

For a community that bemoans rider fatalities, much of that community seems loathe to point the finger at the greatest threat facing riders, and that is riders themselves.

Since passenger vehicles report even higher fatality and accident numbers and percentages you obviously hate them too. It's not that you hate riders, it's that you are a complete misanthrope. Not even a microdrop of compassion or empathy. You reap what you sow. Sad life you have. Too bad you have to spread your disease here. I'm amazed that such haters are allowed on GTAM as this place should be about motorcycle and riding enjoyment. You literally never ever ever have posted about you riding or anything related.

 

[Neil_V]

Re: If you participated in this ride smarten up!!!!!

Sorry that some don't like hard truths. I supposes it's easier to point the finger at left turners, rear-enders, and SMIDSYs than it is to look inward at one's own riding practices and attitudes.

Do you even read an entire post before smashing keys? I'm thinking you do; just easier to glaze over/ignore anything alternative to your opinion..

The antipathy is real, speaking of hard truths.

I personally don't buy the old "it's not usually the riders fault", and have never propagated that fallacy. But I certainly don't agree with the mandates/solutions/ideas you commonly push, nor the notion that we're the biggest problem we face.

One thing that needs to be taken away from that article you keep posting is the OPP's numbers are going to be primarily rural, which skew numbers greatly in favour of single vehicle collisions, regardless of vehicle type.

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