Super warm winter jacket?

Forum Sponsor
At least when you buy down from major manufacturers , and prefereably north american where we have a regulation on what constitutes 'down' you get a down jacket.
Open up an 'offshore' jacket, duvet or sleeping bag, the percentage of chicken feathers is alarming. (chickens don't have down)
 
The problem with down used to be that it lost its insulation when wet but now they have new treated down that still insulates when damp.
 
I recommend North Face parkas as a alternative. I have a few Columbia and Helly Hanson coats/parkas some down and some synth but none come close to the North Face parka I got last year. I get cold easily yet I still can't wear it unless it's colder than -8c. The others I'll wear at 5c or under.
 
I came across a trapped coyote once. It was still alive. It was in bad shape, it had been chewing at itself trying to get free...
I shot it, intentionally destroyed the hide.. and trap.
I don't like trapping.. it's cruel.
 
A lady outside of Milton last year walking her Bichon to the mailbox had it snatched off the driveway by a coyote, that seemed cruel. I never see any jackets trimmed out with poodle or bichon, yet is on the menu in south Asia.
 
Coyotes get dogs all the time... and dogs get coyotes all the time. It's not the same. I don't really care if someone is shooting a coyote or catching it with dogs... if they're doing it properly.
Trapping and baiting... I have zero respect for either.. don't consider either practise to be hunting.
Just last week there was a news article about a woman's dog getting caught in a conibear on private property (no permission) right in the same area that I used to come across the traps.
The trapper knows I destroyed his traps and equipment.. I told him I did it when I gave him back his smashed equipment... and yet no ministry visit... I wonder why!? When I shot the trapped coyote.. it was 4 days before he came around asking if we knew anything.

BTW... you've probably seen more jackets, or other fur lined clothing, lined with dog than you realize.
I have no issue with people eating dogs... but I do have a serious issue with how they prep them in Asia.... burning them alive, skinning them alive, butchering them while still alive... intentionally torturing the animal before and as it dies... I don't feel any different when it comes to the animals we eat over here.. cows, pigs, etc.. do what you have to do, but do it cleanly and efficiently with as little suffering as possible.
 
jc100 said:
Modtern technology has progressed to such a point that wearing dead dog around your head is unnecessary in the 21st century so to do so involves a conscious decision, which I personally care not to make. Synthetic fur accomplishes exactly the same thing as the coyote fur of goose jackets. Modern tech still hasn’t got anything as good as down yet though although it’s close and the down is a by product of the food industry. Maybe it’s a European thing but I want absolutely nothing to do with companies that deal in fur.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ - have you ever relied on fur to keep you warm and safe? Fur bearing animals make it through arctic winters just fine, because fur is a terrific insulator. Synthetic insulators are great, however there are no alternatives that perform as well as down or fur - at least I haven't found any.

I dabble a bit in this stuff, I make extreme cold protection products for people that work outside in Arctic conditions, hats and mitts that can protect to -60. Fur, skins, wool, and down are the only materials that perform in this arena -- there are no synthetic options that I know of.

I understand there are many who think that fur is evil and I can appreciate and respect their point of view. Unless they hypocritically chicken McNuggets, striploins, bacon, eggs, or even a glass of milk. The animals exploited for those pleasures suffer considerably more than the coyote that trims a Canada goose jacket.
 
raginduck said:
BTW... you've probably seen more jackets, or other fur lined clothing, lined with dog than you realize.
Click to expand...
Probably not. Furs are taken in a small extreme cold window when mammals build dense winter undercoats. Some dogs do this seasonally, however it's not economically viable to raise dogs for fur trim or selectively harvest stray dogs in a small winter coat window -- your assertion is economically implausible.
 
raginduck said:
I came across a trapped coyote once. It was still alive. It was in bad shape, it had been chewing at itself trying to get free...
I shot it, intentionally destroyed the hide.. and trap.
I don't like trapping.. it's cruel.
Click to expand...
I'd have unhooked him (done this a few times in the past). A trapped animal will scamper off if you open the release. They might be down for a bit, but in the winter they usually heal up, all they usually retain is a scar.

I live in an urban area, my backyard is a wildlife corridor that accumulates coyotes, raccoons, possums and the odd weasel. I trap them only because they are pests -- they terrorize my pets and or my house. While I have a small fur shop, I never dispatch the animals I trap -- they are always relocated unharmed.
 
Mad Mike said:
I'd have unhooked him (done this a few times in the past). A trapped animal will scamper off if you open the release. They might be down for a bit, but in the winter they usually heal up, all they usually retain is a scar.

I live in an urban area, my backyard is a wildlife corridor that accumulates coyotes, raccoons, possums and the odd weasel. I trap them only because they are pests -- they terrorize my pets and or my house. While I have a small fur shop, I never dispatch the animals I trap -- they are always relocated unharmed.
Click to expand...

It was unhooked. It was done. Shooting it was the right thing to do.
 
Real fur is a renewable resource, fake fur is a petroleum product. Which , often contains leather, animal fats in process and some includes actual animal hair.
 
Mad Mike said:
Probably not. Furs are taken in a small extreme cold window when mammals build dense winter undercoats. Some dogs do this seasonally, however it's not economically viable to raise dogs for fur trim or selectively harvest stray dogs in a small winter coat window -- your assertion is economically implausible.
Click to expand...

You're assuming the manufacturer in China using dog fur cares about the quality of the product. QC isn't high on the priority list for the factory that's using mystery fur.
 
Mad Mike said:
I beg to differ - have you ever relied on fur to keep you warm and safe? Fur bearing animals make it through arctic winters just fine, because fur is a terrific insulator. Synthetic insulators are great, however there are no alternatives that perform as well as down or fur - at least I haven't found any.

I dabble a bit in this stuff, I make extreme cold protection products for people that work outside in Arctic conditions, hats and mitts that can protect to -60. Fur, skins, wool, and down are the only materials that perform in this arena -- there are no synthetic options that I know of.

I understand there are many who think that fur is evil and I can appreciate and respect their point of view. Unless they hypocritically chicken McNuggets, striploins, bacon, eggs, or even a glass of milk. The animals exploited for those pleasures suffer considerably more than the coyote that trims a Canada goose jacket.
Click to expand...

Theres quite a few Everest climbers that would disagree with you. I don’t recollect any recent pictures with climbers wearing fur and their environment is arguably harsher than sea level Arctic. Fur trim around hoods is to create a still air barrier that can help insulate. The exact same process is performed with synthetic fur. Fur coats just aren’t necessary anymore. There’s a reason why the industry is dying in Europe. It’s cruel and there are just so many cheaper and as effective alternatives.

Down is the only material we don’t have as good a synthetic version of. Primaloft isn’t too bad and keeps insulating properties when wet, which down doesn’t do unless the down is treated. Wool doesn’t have to be taken from a dead/killed animal so it’s in a different category. It won’t be too long before we have an effective synthetic down though, I’m pretty sure of that.

I saw some outrageously priced high end trekking clothing a while back that looked to be super warm. Basically a heavily filled down onesie.
 
Rick CH said:
You're assuming the manufacturer in China using dog fur cares about the quality of the product. QC isn't high on the priority list for the factory that's using mystery fur.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it doesn't happen -- I'm saying it's hard to believe. The furs used for ruffs are not terribly expensive, I can't see the economy in sorting through housepets that must be shaggy, coyote-colored, and only in Dec thru Feb when they are I their winter coats.


Do dogs an cats in China suffer at the hands of fur trinket makers? Yes they do. At the hands of Canada Goose or any notable garment maker? I think not.
 
To be clear... I was referring to products from Asia...
I don't think that "notable garment makers" do it.
 
jc100 said:
Theres quite a few Everest climbers that would disagree with you. I don’t recollect any recent pictures with climbers wearing fur and their environment is arguably harsher than sea level Arctic.

I saw some outrageously priced high end trekking clothing a while back that looked to be super warm. Basically a heavily filled down onesie.
Click to expand...

There is another reason you dont see a lot of fur on everest, its politically incorrect. The Dali Lama is a vegetarian, many many Tibetans are really opposed to fur. Its become a political football as the Chinese are actually trying to force the use of fur in occupied Tibet. Most tibetans are quite opposed. We were there in 2015, hiking not climbing, the average temp at base camp during the zoo season(climbing) is 12c at base camp and can be -30/40 at the summit which is about the same as high level arctic winter and warmer than antarctic winter.

My daughter worked in the Canadian north, the joke was the locals wore a lot of fur since it was 1/10 the price of a North Face jacket.
 
Mad Mike said:
I beg to differ - have you ever relied on fur to keep you warm and safe? Fur bearing animals make it through arctic winters just fine, because fur is a terrific insulator. Synthetic insulators are great, however there are no alternatives that perform as well as down or fur - at least I haven't found any.

I dabble a bit in this stuff, I make extreme cold protection products for people that work outside in Arctic conditions, hats and mitts that can protect to -60. Fur, skins, wool, and down are the only materials that perform in this arena -- there are no synthetic options that I know of.

I understand there are many who think that fur is evil and I can appreciate and respect their point of view. Unless they hypocritically chicken McNuggets, striploins, bacon, eggs, or even a glass of milk. The animals exploited for those pleasures suffer considerably more than the coyote that trims a Canada goose jacket.
Click to expand...

Down performs very poorly if worn while active. A lot of sweat gets caught in the down wetting it out. If it's really cold it freezes before it gets out. Over a few days in a tent it can become a serious issue. It works while resting or sleeping, but for high intensity activities synthetic insulation is way better. Down sweaters are like Jeeps... Great for going to the mall.

And fur? Where is fur used and what purpose does it serve?

I'm curious what's your company? I always try to get Canadian gear.

Sent from my DROID Turbo using Tapatalk
 
You could always ask this guy:
21231810_10209767919130471_1788420684558993060_n.jpg


We did a tour up there when we were in Alaska.
https://www.facebook.com/Girdwood2Nome/?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser


Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom