Stuck swingarm pivot bolt

Wise old words of wisdom:
Use a small hammer when you want to peen something. (peen as in mutilate)
Use a big heavy hammer when you want to drift something. (drift as in use inertia to move)
 
Trials said:
... sorta wondered about that.

Part#12 is definitely your needle bearing inner race as well as being a spacer.
Part#10 on the latest drawing is very curious, it appears to be drawn as a threaded collar, but there is no corresponding thread hole for that to mate with :unsure: unless part#11 is threaded on the inside, and that still does not make a lot of sense.
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Part 11 and 12 are called tophats, they are a type of spanner bushing, not a race. All they do is span the distance between a bearing race and axle, sometimes the distribute load. Unlike a race they are not pressed on or pinned, they move freely inside a bearing that has its own race and outside an axle. Tophats should slide out easily, axles should slide thru them easily.

They are a pain to service because they are not always lubed on the axle side so they often corrode to the axle. Especially if they are made of dissimilar metals. I think this is your problem.

Heat, rust eating chemicals, and impact are your only options - the top hat needs to break free of the axle.
 
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Once this is done, be sure to slather the tophats and axle with anti seize during reassembly.

I like Permatex copper for this.
 
Mad Mike said:
Part 11 and 12 are called tophats, they are a type of spanner bushing, not a race. All they do is span the distance between a bearing race and axle,
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The needle bearing is drawn as a cup bearing, that cup holds the needles that must ride on a hardened surface,
that particular tophat, needs to also be the stationary inner race for the needle bearing. The seals which are separate parts also ride on that tophat the other side is just a spacer
heat is good, it expands things.
 
is it out yet?
 
Trials said:
The needle bearing is drawn as a cup bearing, that cup holds the needles that must ride on a hardened surface,
that particular tophat, needs to also be the stationary inner race for the needle bearing. The seals which are separate parts also ride on that tophat the other side is just a spacer
heat is good, it expands things.
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A top hat is not a race, it’s just a simple spanner bushing. Not all needle bearings run on hardened surfaces, look at shafts on farm equipment, industrial casters, and swingarms -- they are not usually hardened or precision ground. Because the tophat isn't pressed in or staked, it can roll or rotate on both the bearing and axle sides.

Anyway, that's moot -- if the tophat is stuck to the axle it all comes down to heat, rust juice and force.
 
That nut and bolt on my Montesa isn't rusting any time soon, it's Ti alloy :cool:
except for where the needle bearing sleeves are, those are steel sleeves.

Is it out yet :D
 
J_F said:
sounds like the situation here:
www.speedzilla.com

Trouble Removing Swingarm

www.speedzilla.com www.speedzilla.com

the outcome is below....getting the shaft vertical will help
as the penetrant will wick into the seized area
with bike vertical it will just run down onto the floor
but getting the bike securely on it's side is a pain

this is the best penetrant I've used, Acklands sells it


View attachment 45933
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Extremely similar situation, though he's frustratingly vague about how it was actually fixed, not even saying whether the bike was first laid on one side then the other, where the oil was pooled, or what tool was used to get it out. I'd really like to avoid laying it on the side if possible, as it's got side mounted rads, so all that plumbing etc would have to come off. It's also got no forks on at the moment, as they're with John Sharrard at Accelerated Technologies, so none of that is happening anytime soon...
 
Trials said:
is it out yet?
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Sorry! Had to run around for work today, no time to futz. Will be escalating to a bigger hammer tonight, as at a minimum, I don't see it hurting anything...
 
Mad Mike said:
Anyway, that's moot -- if the tophat is stuck to the axle it all comes down to heat, rust juice and force.
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It's not an easy spot to heat, as it's sandwiched between the case, frame, swingarm and front sprocket. I'm going to remove the sprocket and sprocket cover for better access, but on this bike that also necessitates removing the hydraulic clutch slave and associated plumbing. I look forward to seeing what grease catches on fire...
 
Priller said:
Extremely similar situation, though he's frustratingly vague about how it was actually fixed, not even saying whether the bike was first laid on one side then the other, where the oil was pooled, or what tool was used to get it out. I'd really like to avoid laying it on the side if possible, as it's got side mounted rads, so all that plumbing etc would have to come off. It's also got no forks on at the moment, as they're with John Sharrard at Accelerated Technologies, so none of that is happening anytime soon...
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Huh?

" He leaned the bike over for the weekend and sprayed penetrating oil on it a couple times a day. He then took it to work today, and used an air hammer to get it out. "
 
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GreyGhost said:
Huh?

" He leaned the bike over for the weekend and sprayed penetrating oil on it a couple times a day. He then took it to work today, and used an air hammer to get it out. "
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The bolt is stuck on the left side for me (it spins freely in the adjusting bolt collar on the right), and the hammering would have to happen on the right side to push the bolt out. There is nowhere convenient to let penetrating oil pool to actually enter the case section, so did he lean it on the right side and pool in the recess of the frame? Did he do something that allowed it to pool closer to the case? What size air hammer did he use? How did he actually hammer it out? My small one is being run at 100 psi and wide open, same as suggested above, and got me absolutely nowhere except buzzy hands and ringing ears, even after a couple days of spraying Liquid Wrench liberally over every contact point I can reach. Because the bolt is hollow, I'm using a socket adapter with the 3/8" male end inside the bolt and the 1/2" female end to hammer on. I may be doing exactly the same and have a bigger problem, or his friend may have done a step that I missed. Either way, until the forks get reinstalled, there can be no laying it on its side...
 
Priller said:
It's not an easy spot to heat, as it's sandwiched between the case, frame, swingarm and front sprocket. I'm going to remove the sprocket and sprocket cover for better access, but on this bike that also necessitates removing the hydraulic clutch slave and associated plumbing. I look forward to seeing what grease catches on fire...
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Heat, rust juice and hammer.

Kinda like burbon, scotch, and beer -- if you're short on one, just use a little more of the other.
 
Penetrating oil likes go where the rust is, gravity just makes it work faster,
forcing it in under pressure does the same thing, buy it in a spray can with the long nozzle tube thingy :geek:

... no wait scrap that idea, you need to get it out tonight. We need closure :LOL: Use the Poppa Bear hammer
 
Bolt is hollow, you could put a threaded rod through that and draw it out, how big is the hole? 3/8 inch diameter or better?
... not sure if 1/4 inch threaded rod would take the stress, but it would be easy to rig.
 
Priller said:
The bolt is stuck on the left side for me (it spins freely in the adjusting bolt collar on the right), and the hammering would have to happen on the right side to push the bolt out. There is nowhere convenient to let penetrating oil pool to actually enter the case section, so did he lean it on the right side and pool in the recess of the frame? Did he do something that allowed it to pool closer to the case? What size air hammer did he use? How did he actually hammer it out? My small one is being run at 100 psi and wide open, same as suggested above, and got me absolutely nowhere except buzzy hands and ringing ears, even after a couple days of spraying Liquid Wrench liberally over every contact point I can reach. Because the bolt is hollow, I'm using a socket adapter with the 3/8" male end inside the bolt and the 1/2" female end to hammer on. I may be doing exactly the same and have a bigger problem, or his friend may have done a step that I missed. Either way, until the forks get reinstalled, there can be no laying it on its side...
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What size hose? How long is the hose? What type of air fittings? Is 100 psi static or with the tool operating? I have 3/8" and 3/4" air lines in the garage. Same air pressure in both. High flow fittings on 3/4" line, normal fittings on 3/8". Switching lines turns impact gun from needing 20+ hits to 1 hit to break something free. If I put a gauge on the gun after the fitting, I expect that I could see the pressure collapse with the 3/8 hose under load. The gun doesnt sound much different, it just works like an entirely different tool.
 
Well, bigger hammers (and a less tentative swing) are sometimes the best solution...

20201119_184525.jpg

May also have been another day of the oil having a go, but I'll take it.

Thanks all very, very much for your help. It's super appreciated....
 
Don't you wish these things had grease nipples.

:unsure: I wonder how many people use a power washer near that assembly?
 
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