kjonesversa
Active member
I put on 115 k after oil change.
storing motorcycle in unheated garage (attached to house)
- Thread starter kjonesversa
- Start date
Assuming it isn't a six figure creampuff, I wouldn't worry at all. In fact, I try to ride when the weather is nice. Getting it ready for winter is more a maintenance checkbox than preservation. If it was a plane that wasn't going to be started for six months, I would treat things differently.
Adding to the pearls of wisdom above, I also disconnect the wires to the fuel pump and run the engine until the carbs are empty, this heats up the old oil, change oil and filter. With the new oil I turn the engine a few times (without it firing) to move the new oil around and put it to bed. I stopped covering the bike. Unheated garage and not really connected to house except by roof and attic space.
Of course if we have some warms days in Jan/Feb, I am too weak and will head out for a ride (why am I paying insurance in the winter months for
. I only do this if the roads are dry, but I know there is salt dust, oh well, pray for an early spring like this year.
Of course if we have some warms days in Jan/Feb, I am too weak and will head out for a ride (why am I paying insurance in the winter months for
. I only do this if the roads are dry, but I know there is salt dust, oh well, pray for an early spring like this year.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
And Mice.
You don't want mice nesting in your intake, under or inside the seat of your bike.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't do anything to my bikes for the winter. No oil changes, no battery tenders. I do ride all year, so they get exercise at least once a month. If I don't get out for a ride, I'll fire them up and let them run till they reach operating temp.
Been doing that for 40 years. My '16 Vstrom is on its OE battery - still starts like it's new.
I’ll agree with most things above from others, and disagree with a few.
Change your oil. Acidic oil is a thing. I agree most people never experience the eventual results of pitted bearings and such that happen when acidic oil is left in an engine to sit for months at a time because they seldom keep a bike that long, but it is a thing. It’s real world wear and tear that’s easily avoided.
Fogging? Certainly nothing wrong with the practice and it has real world benefits, but as others have touched on, it can be a pain to accomplish. And for a bike that might only sit five or six months before being reactivated, unless it is being stored in a very high moisture area, generally unnecessary.
Battery tender? Essential item unless you want to be replacing your battery potentially as early as next spring. Make sure to buy an actual tender/maintainer, not a trickle charger – they are very different things, although true trickle chargers are pretty uncommon now honestly.
Stabilizer? As you see there is not a lot of love lost for it anymore, however I put it in the “cheap insurance“ category myself. I’ve had to deal with things like sticky injectors on engines that were not run for long periods of time, and fuel stabilizer is perhaps one of those simple things that can help avoid Potentially expensive problems, so why wouldn’t one choose to use it since its cheap and easy?
Don’t fall for any of the nonsense online about jacking up your bike to get the weight off the tires or the suspension or any of that other nonsense, it’s just that, nonsense.
And the most important advice of all of it, mentioned early on in responses above, don’t start your bike unless you are going to ride it for at least 10-15 minutes. And no, starting it sitting in your garage and running it for 10 or 15 minutes is not the same as riding. Starting and not actually riding just ends up with all sorts of moisture being drawn into places you don’t want it. It’s also very hard on the engine since motorcycles typically use fairly thick oils designed for summer which do not flow well in the winter, meaning that the bike is really struggling to lubricate your engine on a cold dry start after sitting for weeks. Again, it’s more totally unnecessary wear and tear. Just don’t do it no matter how many people you find on Facebook and elsewhere online swearing that it’s somehow beneficial, or “I’ve been doing it for years and nothing bad has ever happened”.
Now, if you are somebody who rides sort of regularly through the winter, at least once a month when the roads are clean, you can throw a lot of that out the door even. But if you were parking your bike until next May, different.
Change your oil. Acidic oil is a thing. I agree most people never experience the eventual results of pitted bearings and such that happen when acidic oil is left in an engine to sit for months at a time because they seldom keep a bike that long, but it is a thing. It’s real world wear and tear that’s easily avoided.
Fogging? Certainly nothing wrong with the practice and it has real world benefits, but as others have touched on, it can be a pain to accomplish. And for a bike that might only sit five or six months before being reactivated, unless it is being stored in a very high moisture area, generally unnecessary.
Battery tender? Essential item unless you want to be replacing your battery potentially as early as next spring. Make sure to buy an actual tender/maintainer, not a trickle charger – they are very different things, although true trickle chargers are pretty uncommon now honestly.
Stabilizer? As you see there is not a lot of love lost for it anymore, however I put it in the “cheap insurance“ category myself. I’ve had to deal with things like sticky injectors on engines that were not run for long periods of time, and fuel stabilizer is perhaps one of those simple things that can help avoid Potentially expensive problems, so why wouldn’t one choose to use it since its cheap and easy?
Don’t fall for any of the nonsense online about jacking up your bike to get the weight off the tires or the suspension or any of that other nonsense, it’s just that, nonsense.
And the most important advice of all of it, mentioned early on in responses above, don’t start your bike unless you are going to ride it for at least 10-15 minutes. And no, starting it sitting in your garage and running it for 10 or 15 minutes is not the same as riding. Starting and not actually riding just ends up with all sorts of moisture being drawn into places you don’t want it. It’s also very hard on the engine since motorcycles typically use fairly thick oils designed for summer which do not flow well in the winter, meaning that the bike is really struggling to lubricate your engine on a cold dry start after sitting for weeks. Again, it’s more totally unnecessary wear and tear. Just don’t do it no matter how many people you find on Facebook and elsewhere online swearing that it’s somehow beneficial, or “I’ve been doing it for years and nothing bad has ever happened”.
Now, if you are somebody who rides sort of regularly through the winter, at least once a month when the roads are clean, you can throw a lot of that out the door even. But if you were parking your bike until next May, different.
Basically filling cylinders with vaporized oil. You can buy fogging oil. More important on things like two-stroke outboards that see a hard shutdown for 8 or 9 months than bikes that have a relatively short nap.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I'll agree with that if you plan on hibernating your bike from Nov to May.
I'll disagree with the part about starting and running till warm every few months being harmful in any meaningful way - the moisture argument is hogwash. A cold engine does push moist air into the crankcase however it's not a material amount when compared to the atmospheric moisture an engine will condense under GTA winter weather conditions.
In your garage, the winter conditions will fluctuate temp by up to 30C/day in the winter, and relative humidity can change from 50 to 100% in no time. What magic stops moisture from equalizing and condensing inside your engine as temp, humidity, and pressure change around your bike?
If you want to get a better example of what I mean? leave your car in the driveway, windows up, then at 7AMcheck to see how much atmospheric moisture snuck in and condensed on the inside of your car windshield? I can guarantee you that blowby from the engine didn't put it there. Now start the car, turn on the blower then tell us how much heat was required to evaporate all that wet?
Some of those Facebook people have been doing it for years. I'm not a Facebooker, but I can offer 40 years of experience with dozens of bikes, boats, ATVs, power equipment and classic cars - your bike will see no measurable harm if it's started and run till warm in the winter.
Our garage is attached but mostly unheated (I run heater less than 20 hours a winter, dehumidifier up to 20 hours a week depending on weather and how it feels in there). Temp is quite stable. It's 63F right now, in the winter it gets down to just above freezing and max daily temp swing is 10f, normally more like 3f. 30C swing in the winter I don't think I could ever pull off even if I tried. With a gas heater and leaving the garage door open for a long time, maybe.
It's magic in an aerosol can.
I used it in every boat engine I owned, for winter storage, never on a bike.
You remove spark plug(s) and spray the engine cylinder walls. Helps keep moisture away, 'cause most boats are wrapped / covered, and left outside for the winter.
Fogging is spraying storage oil straight down the throat of the carb(s) as per URL below, while the engine is running.
I used to do it with my ST1100. Pull off fake tank cover, remove air clearner cover and then, with a helper, spray fogging oil into the 4 carbs inlets until the engine was smoking and them I'd turn it off for the winter storage season. This process coated the carb throats, the intake manifold, the cylinders and the mufflers with a coat of storage oil.
In the spring the engine cranked for 10 seconds, bike started and smoked until it was warmed up.
I don't do this with the Tracer, PITA to get to the air filter + it's fuel injected + has a cat + a bunch of sensors the old analog ST never had.
Gaoler
Well-known member
Although it might feel like it, winter storage isn't really all that long.
Twenty to twenty four weeks...
All I do is give her a bath, fill the tank, use stabilizer, park her in the garage.
I don't usually cover her, cuz then how would I get to look at her every time I go out to shovel the F###in' driveway.
Twenty to twenty four weeks...
All I do is give her a bath, fill the tank, use stabilizer, park her in the garage.
I don't usually cover her, cuz then how would I get to look at her every time I go out to shovel the F###in' driveway.
"Fogging" was meant to stop cast iron cylinder liners (which the piston rings slide within) from rusting.
Lots of newer bike engines, including the Tracer 9 that the original poster mentioned, use clever plated-aluminium or alloy cylinder walls nowadays. No more cast iron cylinder walls. Yamaha Motorcycle Technology
Lots of newer bike engines, including the Tracer 9 that the original poster mentioned, use clever plated-aluminium or alloy cylinder walls nowadays. No more cast iron cylinder walls. Yamaha Motorcycle Technology
The 3 things I do religiously when putting my bike away for the winter are…
1) Take it it for a good ride and shut it off hot before storage to make sure there’s no condensation anywhere in the engine and exhaust. Ever see water dripping from the exhaust pipe on a cold start car or bike?
2) Put your battery on a Battery Tender either on your bench or in the bike, doesn’t matter. I’ve lost many batteries over the years by letting them go dead over the winter.
3) Make sure your tank is full preferably with non ethanol gas, I think Shell premium is still ethanol free. This prevents condensation and corrosion which can wreak havoc on your fuel system.
I usually put gas stabilizer in the tank but not always. As for the oil , I change it only when I need to or when it’s convenient.
1) Take it it for a good ride and shut it off hot before storage to make sure there’s no condensation anywhere in the engine and exhaust. Ever see water dripping from the exhaust pipe on a cold start car or bike?
2) Put your battery on a Battery Tender either on your bench or in the bike, doesn’t matter. I’ve lost many batteries over the years by letting them go dead over the winter.
3) Make sure your tank is full preferably with non ethanol gas, I think Shell premium is still ethanol free. This prevents condensation and corrosion which can wreak havoc on your fuel system.
I usually put gas stabilizer in the tank but not always. As for the oil , I change it only when I need to or when it’s convenient.
JT saved us from the evils of ethanol-free fuel. I don't think any normal gas station is ethanol free anymore. Airports and marinas have access to ethanol-free fuel.
Here's a website that shows stations with ethanol free gas. They have 41 listed in Ontario. Take info with a grain of salt as some of the listings are suspicious and probably listed by somebody that doesn't know their head from their ass (eg I highly doubt that only one shell station in the province sells ethanol free 87).
Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada
Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.
AFJ
Well-known member
Other than the potential for gasoline in a cold metal m/c tank to pick up water from a moist atmosphere over the winter period, the search for no-alcohol gasoline with the idea that it is somehow "better" than ordinary gasoline as sold with 10% alcohol is - in my opinion - not worth worrying about. I leave some fuel in the tank over the winter, drain it in spring and put it in my old car. Put fresh gasoline in the bikes, and do the usual spring service on them.
AFJ
AFJ
Not heating up your engine to 100°c (+) only to shut it off again in potentially freezing temps, and then letting it sit for weeks or months is the “magic”. Delta T.
there are many variables you’re not taking into consideration as well, such as people who stored their bikes outside, or in a garage partially or completely buffered from the weather and temp swings.
No matter what, minimizing the Delta T between a chunk of metal and cold moist ambient air will minimize moisture attraction.
There’s also the dry start/cold-thick-oil argument which is indeed just totally unnecessary wear and tear on your bearings. Any moisture that also may have built up in the fuel tank as a result of ethanol phase separation may also get drawn into the injectors and then get left sitting there if it doesn’t get run through completely.
In short, although many will argue that it’s “not harmful” (despite many valid arguments to the contrary), it certainly isn’t beneficial in any way, shape, or form, so why bother?
As for fogging, I agree it’s increasingly unnecessary, however one must also keep in mind that some people literally put their bikes away at the end of September and don’t pull them out until basically June. We’re talking potentially up to nine months of sitting, a point at which it still may make sense for some, especially if the bike is stored outdoors with minimal shelter.
Relax
Well-known member
Your garage would need to be something just slightly worse than a car port to see that much of a temperature and humidity swing in a short enough time to cause condensation. I think my small back yard shed is as close as I've come to seeing any kind of condensation inside a closed structure. I've never seen overnight condensation in any of my 2-car garages when the doors were kept closed, even in my old one which was completely uninsulated.
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Park your car where it will get sunlight first thing in the morning.
All that nice glass makes a good fish bowl and all the glass will be covered in condensation (on the inside if it's above freezing, on the both sides if it's below freezing (HINT HINT).
Next day leave the window down about 2"... no condensation.
Park it in the shade... no condensation... or at least a lot less
There's a grade 8 science lesson in there somewhere. Condensation doesn't come from temperature change, condensation comes from difference in temps. As the air warms, it loses it's ability to hold water and the water condenses on anything that is cooler than the air... like the engine or the full fuel tank)
So if you leave your bike in a un-heated shed, be sure it stays out of the sun.
If you empty the fuel tank and leave the lid open: there is enough air flow that the temp inside the tank will be the same as the outside, so NO condensation.
If you don't empty the tank: fill it as full as possible... the idea is to lessen the surface area, the area in contact with humid air. If I leave 2 liters of fuel in my Honda's tank it has about 3-4 sq ft of area contacting air. If I fill it up to the brim, there is about 6 sq inches of gas contacting air.
The SCHMOO that clogs up carbs and injectors doesn't come from gas, it comes from the water that is absorbed by the gas (so YEAH, we're breathing that SCHMOO all the time)
The way fuel stabilizers work is they contain a compound very much like soap, that floats on the top of the fuel, blocking off contact to air, it forms a layer on the top of the gas. It also deposits that soap stuff on everything it touches... so I won't use it on an injected motor. an injector is in a sealed system that the fuel has no access to air, unlike a carbed bike, so it won't be a problem for 5-6 months (at most) we store our bikes. Most of the aromatics will evaporate through the soap layer though... aromatic molecules are teeny tiny and highly active.
... so 75-100ml of Dawn dish soap works as well as STABIL as a fuel stabilizer
If you have condensation inside a building you have a real problem and it means your structure wasn't built correctly... and you should fix it as soon as possible cuz your structure is going to quickly rot
All that nice glass makes a good fish bowl and all the glass will be covered in condensation (on the inside if it's above freezing, on the both sides if it's below freezing (HINT HINT).
Next day leave the window down about 2"... no condensation.
Park it in the shade... no condensation... or at least a lot less
There's a grade 8 science lesson in there somewhere. Condensation doesn't come from temperature change, condensation comes from difference in temps. As the air warms, it loses it's ability to hold water and the water condenses on anything that is cooler than the air... like the engine or the full fuel tank)
So if you leave your bike in a un-heated shed, be sure it stays out of the sun.
If you empty the fuel tank and leave the lid open: there is enough air flow that the temp inside the tank will be the same as the outside, so NO condensation.
If you don't empty the tank: fill it as full as possible... the idea is to lessen the surface area, the area in contact with humid air. If I leave 2 liters of fuel in my Honda's tank it has about 3-4 sq ft of area contacting air. If I fill it up to the brim, there is about 6 sq inches of gas contacting air.
The SCHMOO that clogs up carbs and injectors doesn't come from gas, it comes from the water that is absorbed by the gas (so YEAH, we're breathing that SCHMOO all the time)
The way fuel stabilizers work is they contain a compound very much like soap, that floats on the top of the fuel, blocking off contact to air, it forms a layer on the top of the gas. It also deposits that soap stuff on everything it touches... so I won't use it on an injected motor. an injector is in a sealed system that the fuel has no access to air, unlike a carbed bike, so it won't be a problem for 5-6 months (at most) we store our bikes. Most of the aromatics will evaporate through the soap layer though... aromatic molecules are teeny tiny and highly active.
... so 75-100ml of Dawn dish soap works as well as STABIL as a fuel stabilizer
If you have condensation inside a building you have a real problem and it means your structure wasn't built correctly... and you should fix it as soon as possible cuz your structure is going to quickly rot
