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stop sign ticket
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There are a lot of things going on here:
i believe at this point you'll most likely get your disclosure at trial, if it's a copy of the officers notes... then the officer will photocopy it at the courts and give you an explanation of the abbreviations and short-form writing
can you give us these dates
1) Date of Offense
2) Date you filed your tickets and requested for a trial
3) Date you received your notice of trial
4) Date you requested for disclosure
5) Date you inquired, re-requested for disclosure
6) Schedule trial date
courts want to see that you showed your due diligence (R. v. Dixon), so hypothetically lets say you filed your tickets in Jan 2012 and you received your notice of trial in Apr 2012 giving a trial date on Nov 2012, and you waited till Sep 2012 to give one disclosure request... the courts will see that as a stalling tactic and ask why you waited from Apr to Sep 2012 to submit ONE disclosure request, and when you didn't received disclosure... why you didn't re-request it?
the remedy for non or late disclosure is an adjournment, not a dismissal of the charges
i would also suggest to verify whether your officer has checked-in on the docket, if they haven't... dont' bring up your disclosure issues to the crown or the courts, proceed as if you're going to trial; if you bring up disclosure issues they'll give you a new date BUT you'll have missed a perfect opportunity to have your charges dismissed for 'officer no-show'
i believe at this point you'll most likely get your disclosure at trial, if it's a copy of the officers notes... then the officer will photocopy it at the courts and give you an explanation of the abbreviations and short-form writing
can you give us these dates
1) Date of Offense
2) Date you filed your tickets and requested for a trial
3) Date you received your notice of trial
4) Date you requested for disclosure
5) Date you inquired, re-requested for disclosure
6) Schedule trial date
courts want to see that you showed your due diligence (R. v. Dixon), so hypothetically lets say you filed your tickets in Jan 2012 and you received your notice of trial in Apr 2012 giving a trial date on Nov 2012, and you waited till Sep 2012 to give one disclosure request... the courts will see that as a stalling tactic and ask why you waited from Apr to Sep 2012 to submit ONE disclosure request, and when you didn't received disclosure... why you didn't re-request it?
the remedy for non or late disclosure is an adjournment, not a dismissal of the charges
i would also suggest to verify whether your officer has checked-in on the docket, if they haven't... dont' bring up your disclosure issues to the crown or the courts, proceed as if you're going to trial; if you bring up disclosure issues they'll give you a new date BUT you'll have missed a perfect opportunity to have your charges dismissed for 'officer no-show'
awyala
Guest
11b (Stay) doesn't usually work under 13 month delays from the original offence. If they do not offer discloser before your trial, or they offer it at your trial, but it has not been a year since your offence date, the justice will usually grant adjournment. Mostly likely they will delay the trial between 3 weeks to 3 months.
Even if you get discloser within a couple days of your trial you should request an adjournment to prepare. If it has already been at least a year, request a stay directly. If refused, request adjournment.
If your adjournment date puts the total time since the offence near 13 months, you will have a good chance of sucess at requesting a stay at your next trial date.
If it has only been 6 months since your offence, an 11b stay will not likely be granted at all. Instead the justice will throw it back in your face that you didn't take notes of the incident within a day or two of the offence like the cop had.
So first figure out if the cop shows. You might get lucky!
Then if he shows, request an adjournment. With any lucky you will get some ridiculous trial date another 5 months down the line. Accept it and use it later for your own purposes.
You may get lucky again and the cop doesn't show for that, or still doesn't supply disclosure.
Then you can request a stay 11b or dismissal if disclosure still isnt granted by that time.
When ever disclosure fails to come in, consider it a potential gift!
Even if you get discloser within a couple days of your trial you should request an adjournment to prepare. If it has already been at least a year, request a stay directly. If refused, request adjournment.
If your adjournment date puts the total time since the offence near 13 months, you will have a good chance of sucess at requesting a stay at your next trial date.
If it has only been 6 months since your offence, an 11b stay will not likely be granted at all. Instead the justice will throw it back in your face that you didn't take notes of the incident within a day or two of the offence like the cop had.
So first figure out if the cop shows. You might get lucky!
Then if he shows, request an adjournment. With any lucky you will get some ridiculous trial date another 5 months down the line. Accept it and use it later for your own purposes.
You may get lucky again and the cop doesn't show for that, or still doesn't supply disclosure.
Then you can request a stay 11b or dismissal if disclosure still isnt granted by that time.
When ever disclosure fails to come in, consider it a potential gift!
it's actually closer to 11mths: R. ex rel City of Toronto v. Andrade, 2011 ONCJ 470 (CanLII) http://canlii.ca/t/fn8jv
i believe this decision is binding to Ontario Courts because it was made at the Appeal level
I'm very confused when people use the words 'request a stay directly', don't we need a file a 'Stay of Proceedings' application w.r.t. the prejudicial delay that's been elapsed?
crown attorneys and the courts won't entertain an adjournment just because your 'stay' was denied and you're not prepared to proceed to trial; you will be arraigned
There is precedent to have your charges be stayed without jumping through the hoops if you're representing yourself.. Too lazy to dig up the precedent but it deals with giving leeway to those who may not know all the procedural crap that goes on in the court, thus allowing for a fair trial.
slogan
Well-known member
Couple days left. Do I have to call the PO, asking, if my disclosure is ready? Or I just can Fax them a letter, explaining, that I sent a request for a disclosure in mid May by fax. Then I did call them in mid June. I asked about my disclosure, saying trail date and offense number, and when I submitted the request. The person, I was talking to, said, that they require 6-8 weeks to prepare the disclosure, and that they will call me. I asked, if they will send it by fax or by mail, and he said, that they will call me, and I will have to come to pick it up.
Or I just wait couple ore days till the trail date and present all the notes, that I did take, etc?
Or I just wait couple ore days till the trail date and present all the notes, that I did take, etc?
You want a paper trail, so that you can prove that you acted responsibly, and did your due diligence. Fax them and keep a copy of the fax receipt.
slogan
Well-known member
OK. The trail date is today. SOme details:
The offence took place on January 21st;
The trail date notice was issued on April 12th (I received it couple days later, but I have no envelope left
);
The request for disclosure was sent on May 18th;
Then, I was away from Toronto untill mid June.
On June 20th, I called PO, and they said me, that the disclosure requires about 6-8 weeks to be prepared and that they will call me once it is ready;
So, May 18th+8 weeks is the July 13th...
I waited an extra week, but had no new information. I sent a fax to PO noting this on July 23rd. As well as I have a letter from my colleague, whom I asked in May to pay attention for incoming faxes while I was away, but he did not see any disclosure coming.
The question is: if they will try to give me a disclosure just before the trail, do I have to accept it or reject it? What should I say to prosecutor?
The offence took place on January 21st;
The trail date notice was issued on April 12th (I received it couple days later, but I have no envelope left
);The request for disclosure was sent on May 18th;
Then, I was away from Toronto untill mid June.
On June 20th, I called PO, and they said me, that the disclosure requires about 6-8 weeks to be prepared and that they will call me once it is ready;
So, May 18th+8 weeks is the July 13th...
I waited an extra week, but had no new information. I sent a fax to PO noting this on July 23rd. As well as I have a letter from my colleague, whom I asked in May to pay attention for incoming faxes while I was away, but he did not see any disclosure coming.
The question is: if they will try to give me a disclosure just before the trail, do I have to accept it or reject it? What should I say to prosecutor?
Reject it and say "this doesn't give me enough time to prepare my case". When the trial starts and they ask you how do you plead, don't enter a plea, just say "Your worship, I respectfully request for you to dismiss the charge due to the lack of timely and complete disclosure." If the CP tries to b.s. how they brought the disclosure package to the trial just say "that doesn't give me enough time to prepare my case and I have already taken a day off work just to be here today." That gives you the best chance of having the charge dismissed. Worst case scenario they postpone it and you have good chance of getting off on 11b.
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