Start hoarding your gas powered motor bike. 2035 is the last possible year for gas powered motorcycles to be sold in Canada. | GTAMotorcycle.com

Start hoarding your gas powered motor bike. 2035 is the last possible year for gas powered motorcycles to be sold in Canada.

canuck

Well-known member
Start hoarding your gas powered motor bike. 2035 is the last possible year for gas powered motorcycles to be sold in Canada..

Last year they said motorcycles would not be included with the phase out of gas powered vehicles. With every elected official this will change how much longer do we have for gas powered to be sold brand new. Will gas powered become a collectable or some obsolete stuff.
 
Internal combustion going away is inevitable.
 
There was a thing going around yesterday (1 April) which makes one question the legitimacy of this. But ... It's probably not far from the truth anyhow. And ... with how EVs have improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years, and with how the fast-charging network has improved enormously and is still doing so ... Even if true, it won't be a problem 14 years from now.
 
Hard to say. I think there will still be applications where internal combustion vehicles are going to be the superior option for a variety of reasons.

At the same time I do agree that electric or hybrid electric will be the primary mode for consumer vehicles and IC engines will likely be eliminated from that market or become a small niche.
 
Hard to say. I think there will still be applications where internal combustion vehicles are going to be the superior option for a variety of reasons.

At the same time I do agree that electric or hybrid electric will be the primary mode for consumer vehicles and IC engines will likely be eliminated from that market or become a small niche.

Coal is still around, just not used for anything by anyone anymore

likely the same fate for IC engines, you'd still be able to find it, but will likely not be as convenient or easy as walking over to the gas station
 
Coal is still around, just not used for anything by anyone anymore

likely the same fate for IC engines, you'd still be able to find it, but will likely not be as convenient or easy as walking over to the gas station
Maybe a similar situation to finding E85, CNG, or propane for a vehicle today.

Or maybe not. Can you literally not buy E85 here? I thought there were a few inconvenient places at least
 
That's it!! I'm done. Headed off to the garage and going to invent a steam/coal powered motorcycle. As per the first law of heat and thermal dynamics, I should get about 3km per ton of coal lol.
See how silly this is? You can't get more energy out of said unit of energy (see first law of thermal dynamics).
Batteries are not going to save the planet and electric is no more efficient than the coal plant that produces the hydro to charge said battery.... Actually it's worse because the coal (or nuclear) plant looses about 30% power because it needs to condense it's steam to return it to the boilers (can't pump steam). This waste heat goes straight into the lake as the lake water is used to condense said steam.
Please spare me the feeble argument of solar and wind for recharging (we are 30 billion into Samsung for McGuiny's failed green policy).
ICE are going nowhere. The opposite is true. ICE are getting more and more efficient and cleaner.
I suppose electric is fine for city folks but not for us rural pick-up truck driving rednecks.
Nope, not buying electric, not going to happen until I have no choice (and what a sad day that will be).
Happy apexes.
 
A modern EV charged by the grid is overall more efficient at the system level even IF the grid is fed by a coal-fired plant of decent efficiency (and there is no more coal-fired power generation in Ontario).

A central thermal power plant can be operated close to its best-efficiency conditions almost all the time. A decent coal-fired generating station has a thermal efficiency (energy content of coal in, to energy content of electricity out) of 40% or a bit more. A combined-cycle natural-gas-fired plant (uses a gas-turbine "topping" cycle then the exhaust heat operates a steam-turbine "bottoming" cycle) can have a thermal efficiency of 55% - 60%. Accounting for transmission losses to get to the EV charging point plus the charge-discharge losses at the battery plus losses within the inverter and motors still means the combined system "fossil fuel to wheels" will be in the 30% range for coal-fired or beyond 40% for natural-gas-fired combined-cycle generation.

A good internal-combustion engine can have a 40% thermal efficiency at its best operating point ... but the engine in your motorcycle is not the engine in a Toyota Prius. Low 30s are more likely. And ... That's at the best operating point - probably somewhere in the vicinity of 50% of rated RPM and 75% of rated torque. Most combustion-engine-powered vehicles spend very little operating time in the vicinity of that best operating point. They spend an awful lot of time idling (0% efficiency), and cruising around at part load (poor efficiency). A 200 hp engine has a poor efficiency when it is only producing the 10 hp that it takes to trundle along a country road or putter around town.

EVs don't have that situation. If you're stopped in traffic, the powertrain is drawing no battery power. The powertrain efficiency tends to be +/- 90% over a very wide operating range regardless of instantaneous power demand. And ... regenerative braking. No can do with a non-hybrid combustion-engine vehicle.

Most automotive-scale smaller EVs use around 20 kWh per 100 km, but that is high-grade electrical energy that can be used to make mechanical power with +/- 90% efficiency. Comparable car uses about 7 or 8 L/100 km; one litre of gasoline = 0.74 kg = approx 10.3 kWh of chemical energy but this can only be used at the brake-thermal-efficiency in actual in-service operating conditions to convert it to mechanical power. If the car is using 7 L/100 km that's 72 kWh of chemical energy input per 100 km. That implies a tank-to-wheels efficiency in the combustion engine vehicle of around 25% compared to 90% for the EV ... that's about right for a good one under good operating conditions. Stuck in city traffic, it's going to be a lot worse for the combustion-engine vehicle, and the EV will still be around 90% but with lower power demand because of the lower speed and regenerative braking.

<--- specialised in thermodynamics and fluid dynamics in mechanical engineering, a long time ago, but I still remember it (and I still have my textbooks)
 
A modern EV charged by the grid is overall more efficient at the system level even IF the grid is fed by a coal-fired plant of decent efficiency (and there is no more coal-fired power generation in Ontario).

A central thermal power plant can be operated close to its best-efficiency conditions almost all the time. A decent coal-fired generating station has a thermal efficiency (energy content of coal in, to energy content of electricity out) of 40% or a bit more. A combined-cycle natural-gas-fired plant (uses a gas-turbine "topping" cycle then the exhaust heat operates a steam-turbine "bottoming" cycle) can have a thermal efficiency of 55% - 60%. Accounting for transmission losses to get to the EV charging point plus the charge-discharge losses at the battery plus losses within the inverter and motors still means the combined system "fossil fuel to wheels" will be in the 30% range for coal-fired or beyond 40% for natural-gas-fired combined-cycle generation.

A good internal-combustion engine can have a 40% thermal efficiency at its best operating point ... but the engine in your motorcycle is not the engine in a Toyota Prius. Low 30s are more likely. And ... That's at the best operating point - probably somewhere in the vicinity of 50% of rated RPM and 75% of rated torque. Most combustion-engine-powered vehicles spend very little operating time in the vicinity of that best operating point. They spend an awful lot of time idling (0% efficiency), and cruising around at part load (poor efficiency). A 200 hp engine has a poor efficiency when it is only producing the 10 hp that it takes to trundle along a country road or putter around town.

EVs don't have that situation. If you're stopped in traffic, the powertrain is drawing no battery power. The powertrain efficiency tends to be +/- 90% over a very wide operating range regardless of instantaneous power demand. And ... regenerative braking. No can do with a non-hybrid combustion-engine vehicle.

Most automotive-scale smaller EVs use around 20 kWh per 100 km, but that is high-grade electrical energy that can be used to make mechanical power with +/- 90% efficiency. Comparable car uses about 7 or 8 L/100 km; one litre of gasoline = 0.74 kg = approx 10.3 kWh of chemical energy but this can only be used at the brake-thermal-efficiency in actual in-service operating conditions to convert it to mechanical power. If the car is using 7 L/100 km that's 72 kWh of chemical energy input per 100 km. That implies a tank-to-wheels efficiency in the combustion engine vehicle of around 25% compared to 90% for the EV ... that's about right for a good one under good operating conditions. Stuck in city traffic, it's going to be a lot worse for the combustion-engine vehicle, and the EV will still be around 90% but with lower power demand because of the lower speed and regenerative braking.

QUOTE]I like your post.
Am myself in the field of electrical engineering and know a thing or 2 about generation side, and agree with your points.

Sent from my M2007J20CG using Tapatalk
 
There are a few articles about this. Did British Columbia not say 2040 no more gas powered cars. Did the four Japanese motorcycle manufacturers agree on a standardized battery switching system. In 10 years will they have a battery strong enough to go 400 km that’s the only hurdle stopping this from happening
 
Various jurisdictions around the world are saying no more light-duty cars or light trucks with combustion engines beyond somewhere in the vicinity of 2030 and 2040, and a number of vehicle manufacturers including GM and the VW Group are on board with this. The discussion about motorcycles hasn't come up, but it will, and you can be sure that all of the major manufacturers are working on something. Here's Triumph's (and I'd have to say, this looks pretty cool)
 
A modern EV charged by the grid is overall more efficient at the system level even IF the grid is fed by a coal-fired plant of decent efficiency (and there is no more coal-fired power generation in Ontario).

A central thermal power plant can be operated close to its best-efficiency conditions almost all the time. A decent coal-fired generating station has a thermal efficiency (energy content of coal in, to energy content of electricity out) of 40% or a bit more. A combined-cycle natural-gas-fired plant (uses a gas-turbine "topping" cycle then the exhaust heat operates a steam-turbine "bottoming" cycle) can have a thermal efficiency of 55% - 60%. Accounting for transmission losses to get to the EV charging point plus the charge-discharge losses at the battery plus losses within the inverter and motors still means the combined system "fossil fuel to wheels" will be in the 30% range for coal-fired or beyond 40% for natural-gas-fired combined-cycle generation.

A good internal-combustion engine can have a 40% thermal efficiency at its best operating point ... but the engine in your motorcycle is not the engine in a Toyota Prius. Low 30s are more likely. And ... That's at the best operating point - probably somewhere in the vicinity of 50% of rated RPM and 75% of rated torque. Most combustion-engine-powered vehicles spend very little operating time in the vicinity of that best operating point. They spend an awful lot of time idling (0% efficiency), and cruising around at part load (poor efficiency). A 200 hp engine has a poor efficiency when it is only producing the 10 hp that it takes to trundle along a country road or putter around town.

EVs don't have that situation. If you're stopped in traffic, the powertrain is drawing no battery power. The powertrain efficiency tends to be +/- 90% over a very wide operating range regardless of instantaneous power demand. And ... regenerative braking. No can do with a non-hybrid combustion-engine vehicle.

Most automotive-scale smaller EVs use around 20 kWh per 100 km, but that is high-grade electrical energy that can be used to make mechanical power with +/- 90% efficiency. Comparable car uses about 7 or 8 L/100 km; one litre of gasoline = 0.74 kg = approx 10.3 kWh of chemical energy but this can only be used at the brake-thermal-efficiency in actual in-service operating conditions to convert it to mechanical power. If the car is using 7 L/100 km that's 72 kWh of chemical energy input per 100 km. That implies a tank-to-wheels efficiency in the combustion engine vehicle of around 25% compared to 90% for the EV ... that's about right for a good one under good operating conditions. Stuck in city traffic, it's going to be a lot worse for the combustion-engine vehicle, and the EV will still be around 90% but with lower power demand because of the lower speed and regenerative braking.

<--- specialised in thermodynamics and fluid dynamics in mechanical engineering, a long time ago, but I still remember it (and I still have my textbooks)

was about to ask if you were Iron man
 

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