Sportbikes are Not beginner Bikes

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Why does everyone make it all about the bike??.. IT'S THE RIDER!. Yes if someone starts out on a turbo busa they are MUCH more likely to get hurt, but lets be real here guys how many noobs actually go out and buy 1000+? bike, not too many. Most will go and buy a 600, and yes a 600 is still more bike than they will need, but then again how many seasoned riders take full advantage of the bikes abilities ?.

I started on a 600RR and I know ALOT of guys who have done the same, but we all also made sure to not over ride our abilities, and most of us took the riders course. Threads like this scare people into thinking that motorcycling is just a game of russian roulette, and by buying a larger bike is just adding bullets to the gun. When in fact thats far from the truth.

If more people would take the courses available and pay more attention to learning the basics and less time trying to be the next huge stunter or track star while on public roads there would be no need for these threads.

Bottom line, if your a noob and your getting a bike to impress a chick or just to look cool and you think riding without gear and trying to do wheelies every chance you get or taking on/off ramps at retarded speeds is the way to do it... Think about how cool your going to look when the skin is burnt off your body and your bike is in a million pieces and thats if you make it out alive from the accident.
 
KawasakiKing said:
Are you trying to say that it also depends on the bike and not just on the attitude?
If yes then knowing your limits also includes knowing what bike you can ride on... and what is to powerful...
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And how exactly are you going to know the limits of your car/bike without actually trying to ride it? Trying to ride a very powerful machine, which was not made for beginners, will most likely get you to the next wall.
 
ViperZ said:
And how exactly are you going to know the limits of your car/bike without actually trying to ride it? Trying to ride a very powerful machine, which was not made for beginners, will most likely get you to the next wall.
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In the motorcycle saftey course (that should b taken) the basics are learned. So then ull feel sure on a beginners bike ,then when you feel you need more power you can upgrade.
Instead of just trying randomly if its to much.
Tell me if im wrong...
 
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type_s kid said:
Why does everyone make it all about the bike??.. IT'S THE RIDER!. Yes if someone starts out on a turbo busa they are MUCH more likely to get hurt, but lets be real here guys how many noobs actually go out and buy 1000+? bike, not too many. Most will go and buy a 600, and yes a 600 is still more bike than they will need, but then again how many seasoned riders take full advantage of the bikes abilities ?.

I started on a 600RR and I know ALOT of guys who have done the same, but we all also made sure to not over ride our abilities, and most of us took the riders course. Threads like this scare people into thinking that motorcycling is just a game of russian roulette, and by buying a larger bike is just adding bullets to the gun. When in fact thats far from the truth.
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I also know a lot of riders that started on a 600ss for their first bike. I also know some people that have a great deal of mx experience that went straight to 600ss. The ability to competently ride a 600ss is night and day between those with and those without previous experience.

I can tell you for the vast majority of newb riders (where newb means no previous bike experience and the intro course certainly does not count) that a 600ss is not a good way to learn to ride. Because you didnt get killed riding doesn't mean your good at riding. Getting on a 600ss for the first bike is a good way to stunt your development as a rider.

I can't tell you how many group rides I did on my 250 that had:

a) a bunch of 600 ss (and one 1000cc) newb riders that were always holding me up in the corners and then would race down the straight - it meant it was very difficult to pass them.
b) a bunch of 600 ss newb/newish riders that crashed because they were riding over their head.
c) a 125 sitting on my behind in the twisties

You can learn a whole lot more (a whole lot faster) by making a slow bike go fast than you can trying to stay alive riding a bike that is out of your skill range.

Scan the WERA forums - and other race forums - and see just how many skilled riders actually go from a 600ss to something lighter and less powerful to hone their riding ability.
 
NP6000 said:
I also know a lot of riders that started on a 600ss for their first bike. I also know some people that have a great deal of mx experience that went straight to 600ss. The ability to competently ride a 600ss is night and day between those with and those without previous experience.

I can tell you for the vast majority of newb riders (where newb means no previous bike experience and the intro course certainly does not count) that a 600ss is not a good way to learn to ride. Because you didnt get killed riding doesn't mean your good at riding. Getting on a 600ss for the first bike is a good way to stunt your development as a rider.

I can't tell you how many group rides I did on my 250 that had:

a) a bunch of 600 ss (and one 1000cc) newb riders that were always holding me up in the corners and then would race down the straight - it meant it was very difficult to pass them.
b) a bunch of 600 ss newb/newish riders that crashed because they were riding over their head.
c) a 125 sitting on my behind in the twisties

You can learn a whole lot more (a whole lot faster) by making a slow bike go fast than you can trying to stay alive riding a bike that is out of your skill range.

Scan the WERA forums - and other race forums - and see just how many skilled riders actually go from a 600ss to something lighter and less powerful to hone their riding ability.
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I understand your point, but the way you said it is exactly what scares people away from this sport " You can learn a whole lot more (a whole lot faster) by making a slow bike go fast than you can trying to stay alive riding a bike that is out of your skill range " a new rider will not crash and die because they are on a 600 they will crash because they are riding over their limit, it's not the bike it's the rider.

And I personally dont feel it has hurt or stunted my learning curve towards riding at all, i know my limits and I stay within them, when I want to push myself and the bike I go to the track. I would guess 90% of people who own "SS" bikes use them more as a touring bike anyway and never push the bikes or themselves anyway. So like I have said a million times before, if the person buying the bike is not level headed and is just buying it to fit some kind of image and has no care to learn the skills to be a good rider they will crash no matter what the have be it a 125 or a 600. The rider controls the bike not the other way around.
 
type_s kid said:
The rider controls the bike not the other way around.
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No.

If the rider does not have the skills or experience, the bike will control the rider. That small accidental n00b mistake will cost the rider FAR more than it would in a beginner-friendly bike. And yes, ALL new riders will make mistakes, irregardless of ability or talent.
 
so what?... both those situations could and would happen with any bike, I dont see how this proves your point. it does not matter if a noob makes a mistake on a 125,250,600,650,1000,1300 the outcome will mostlikely be the same. If the rider knows their limits they will be fine on a 600.
 
type_s kid said:
so what?... both those situations could and would happen with any bike, I dont see how this proves your point. it does not matter if a noob makes a mistake on a 125,250,600,650,1000,1300 the outcome will mostlikely be the same. If the rider knows their limits they will be fine on a 600.
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i dont think the outcome would be the same....a 125 would prob. top out at 120km/h...vs a 1300/1400 tops out at 300kms/h +.....so if you lose control at 125km/h, you will have a lot of broken bones, and rash.

if you lose control at 300km/h you will be in heaven
 
^ and thats part of my point. NO NOOB should be trying to top out any bike, so if they are then they are not a level headed rider see what I mean.

I'm not saying that every single rider will be fine riding any bike they want, there are some riders that a simple pocket bike is too much for them. My point is that there are MANY riders who will do just fine and not die like some people here think by starting on a SS. And saying ridiculous things like that will scare people away from this great sport/passtime.

I have posted these points before and others have challenged them but in every case they use speed as the factor... and as I said it's the rider not the bike, the bike will not all of a sudden decide it wants to go 300+ THE RIDER makes the bike do that, and if they are not able to handle that kind of speed THE RIDER is riding above their limits.

And in regards to the videos posted, There are HUNDREDS of videos just like those with people on 50cc,125cc,600 etc.. and they mean nothing and prove nothing. I have always wondered why people make motorcycling sound so horrible and scare people into thinking that they will die if the make the wrong choice on the machine, when they should focus more on getting the rider mentally prepared and making them understand that riding your limits and being aware of your surroundings and staying calm will save your life not weather your on a 125 or a 600!
 
type_s kid said:
so what?... both those situations could and would happen with any bike, I dont see how this proves your point. it does not matter if a noob makes a mistake on a 125,250,600,650,1000,1300 the outcome will mostlikely be the same. If the rider knows their limits they will be fine on a 600.
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A smaller bike is far easier to manoeuver and handle and to make smaller mistakes on than a a heavy 1300cc bike.

Speed or no speed.
 
I can't tell you how many group rides I did on my 250 that had:
a) a bunch of 600 ss (and one 1000cc) newb riders that were always holding me up in the corners and then would race down the straight - it meant it was very difficult to pass them.
b) a bunch of 600 ss newb/newish riders that crashed because they were riding over their head.
c) a 125 sitting on my behind in the twisties
You can learn a whole lot more (a whole lot faster) by making a slow bike go fast than you can trying to stay alive riding a bike that is out of your skill range.
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These are the facts, folks - it's difficult to argue!
At the monent you decide to purchase a 600cc racer replica, you are already riding over your head...
Sure type_s kid, it's each individual rider - someone might be okay and smart, and not kill themselves on their new ZX-10 while someone else might be mentally 'doomed' before they even start riding on something smaller.
But we're speaking in generalizations here (the average typical rider) upon which there are many variations, but common tendencies will always begin to statistically appear.
Racebikes are mostly miserable on the street. What is 'responsive, immediate' handling on the racetrack is just plain nervous and almost dangerous on the roadways. The wheelbases are very short, the suspension hard and there is not enough trail (or self-centering tendency) in the steering geometry.
Very easy to crash.
I would rather see a n00bie on a 1000cc streetbike than a 600cc racebike!
Regards
 
Gryphon said:
These are the facts, folks - it's difficult to argue!
At the monent you decide to purchase a 600cc racer replica, you are already riding over your head...
Sure type_s kid, it's each individual rider - someone might be okay and smart, and not kill themselves on their new ZX-10 while someone else might be mentally 'doomed' before they even start riding on something smaller.
But we're speaking in generalizations here (the average typical rider) upon which there are many variations, but common tendencies will always begin to statistically appear.
Racebikes are mostly miserable on the street. What is 'responsive, immediate' handling on the racetrack is just plain nervous and almost dangerous on the roadways. The wheelbases are very short, the suspension hard and there is not enough trail (or self-centering tendency) in the steering geometry.
Very easy to crash.
I would rather see a n00bie on a 1000cc streetbike than a 600cc racebike!
Regards
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But why generalize everyone?.. I know a few people who have came to me and asked motorcycle related questions and I flat out told them " You WILL get hurt on a motorcycle if you buy one" and the reason being is they just simply dont have the ability to drive a car properly let alone ride a motorcycle. On the other side I have also allowed other friends to test out my bike in an empty parking lot.

I'm not here saying that if your a new rider go out and buy whatever bike you want even if it is a turbo busa, I am saying that sport bikes are hardly the "death trap" on wheels that some are making them sound like. And to say that a SS bike is miserable and dangerous on the streets is just plain crazy.
 
One of the factors most people miss with the displacement debate is the rate of change. A 250 has a maximum acceleration rate much slower than say a 600 which in turn is slower than a 1300.
for example a common newbie mistake is lack of understanding of throttle control.
Example: a nice corner on a 250 you apply full throttle in the corner not much is likely to happen as it does not have the power to break the back tire loose, do the same on a 600 you have a good chance of low siding, do it on a liter class bike and you are on the ground for sure.
 
type_s kid said:
^ and thats part of my point. NO NOOB should be trying to top out any bike, so if they are then they are not a level headed rider see what I mean.
!
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The point your missing is the fact that they are noobs means they wont be able to realize the point your so desperately trying to make until there either in the process of crashing or there already.

Supersport bikes shouldn't be a first bike. Dont take it as an insult it's just a fact. Can some make it with one sure why the heck not, it's been done before.

But the line becomes allot thinner to navigate on something that will whiplash you in a second.

Dont get angry and try to justify it dude you'll never win this battle.

Concentrate on educating the ones you know shouldn't be on one so they have a better chance of making it. It's easier on the blood pressure.
 
Just to put things into perspective here; would you rather have a new driver learn driving in a Civic or in a Ferrari?

Stop trying to justify that a new rider should know their limits on a super sport... :rolleyes:
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