Wow, thanks for all the honest and helpful suggestions!!! I greatly appreciate it. Wish I was able to participate in the discussion, hopefully it's not too late.
1) If you don't give them your phone number, they have to mail it to you. Don't call them. You do not wanna talk to them on the phone. All communication by mail.
2) Double-check the court on the back of the ticket, but I googled this.. If the court addresses match, this page has a fax number that's supposed to go to the right place
http://www.roadwarriors.ca/provincial_offences_court_brampton
3) By "their discretion" I mean that they just send you what they think you need, which is typically just a photocopy of both sides of the ticket. You also wanna request stuff like the constable's notes (TYPED and with all shorthand writing translated into PLAIN ENGLISH), photocopies of the pages relevant to the speed measuring device's calibration and maintenance and you want copies of the calibration and maintenance logs, for example. You have to be specific with your request.
4) Don't call them. Don't talk to them over the phone. If the disclosure request doesn't arrive by the end of February, send another. Check the ticketcombat site, but I think it's about 6 weeks before the trial date that you have to file your 4F (do it over fax as well as per the ticketcombat site instructions) due to lack of disclosure and possibly unreasonable delay if there's more than 10 months between your offence date and your trial date. Typically they won't throw it out for unreasonable delay for anything under a year (closer to 15 month mark), but it's worth a shot to try for anything over 10 month as there have been a FEW cases where people lucked out.
Ok, so I won't add my phone number, and will be vigilant in noting when (if it will) arrive.
I actually went to court in rollerblades before... I ended up walking onto the stand in my socks. I won tho lol.
but I won't disagree that you should show up looking like a respectful human being. I would recommend that to everyone. put on a damn tie, or at least a sport jacket if you are going to show up.
Although I can't see any judge dismissing a case to someone who
may not be in professional attire (showing a serious type of tone) I would be inclined that you knew exactly what to say to win the case. I admit though, that because of my inexperience, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't win. But it will be a great experience. I am thinking of stepping into the court room and hearing Paralegals fight these cases.
I was writing under the assumption that nothing = nothing more than the ticket info. The disclosure is often a form where the information is same as ticket plus sometimes there are officer notes on it. The officer is the witness and that is usually enough.
I didn't know about this disclosure document until after this thread, so I am very grateful that at least there is an avenue if you wish to contest this case. I thought that when you choose to go to court, it's their memory (what they have on paper) VS what you remember, and there are no exchange of information prior to court so that you know what they have against you.
That is entirely false. disclosure is a right of any accused because you have the right to know the case you have to meet. ALL evidence that the crown plans to introduce at trial INCLUDING officer testimony MUST be part of your disclosure. (because you would obviously ask for all of it)
That is why you should always ask for what is commonly called a "will-say" statement. The officer has to write this, if he gives you nothing, that means he can say nothing.
Here is a brief comment about it from the SCC in R. v. Stinchcombe, a leading case about the duty of disclosure.
"A special problem arises in respect to witness statements and is specifically raised in this case. There is virtually no disagreement that statements in the possession of the Crown obtained from witnesses it proposes to call should be produced. In some cases the statement will simply be recorded in notes taken by an investigator, usually a police officer. The notes or copies should be produced. If notes do not exist then a "will say" statement, summarizing the anticipated evidence of the witness, should be produced based on the information in the Crown's possession."
When/where can I request this? Was I supposed to request this upon receiving the ticket, OR can I request this in the Disclosure form?
Salos Dafee, thanks for your example, this is very helpful. I will try to attend public trials to get my grip on this situation. Unfortunately, in my case, I can't think of any solid questions that could shake his credibility.
Me: Where did you catch me using your speed gun?
He: in the middle of the island.
Me: Which direction was I heading when this offense was committed?
He: (1. if he remembers) heading Southbound. (2. if he doesn't remember) I don't recall, may not be important.
Me: Were you aware how many vehicles was caught in this incident?
He: (1. if he remembers) Two. (2. if he doesn't remember) I don't recall
Me: There were two. do you recall which vehicle was caught?
He: (1. if he remembers) His. (2. if he doesn't remember) Yours.
Me: (if it was other person he caught) Based on this information and the lack of information in terms of which direction, and where the intersection was where I was caught, and the fact that there is no evidence that I was actually speeding, since the vehicle was relative to other objects in the vicinity.
Something like that???
I also thought of something, is it possible to ask the judge (if I find there is no way to get this dismissed) to allow me to pay whatever fine, but not have the ticket on record? I heard it was possible, as a friend of mine got a ticket for J-walking, but when he went to court, they told him to pay the price of the ticket, but it won't be on record.
