He/she doesn't have to.
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Speeding Ticket - Fighting it Help
- Thread starter eidner
- Start date
He/she doesn't have to.
Yes, but they always offer to. This is a point of contention in court, which is why most cops offer to have you look at the gun.
Depends on the JP. The ones I have seen don't care at all. Each defendant tries this approach and the JP tells them it is immaterial and time to move on. At that point, most people don't have much else to work with and get convicted.
In Ontario it is not an essential element for the officer to provide the defendant with a speed reading on a RADAR/LIDAR display. You also have to consider that there are other ways to measure speed, which don't have displays: pacing, stop watch, etc
Officers who do show the reading on speed device displays, don't even write it in their notes (that they showed the defendant the speed) or testify at trial that they did.
Admitting to speeding to a rate of speed lower than 114kph will not help you; from a Justice of Peace POV, which is more reliable and accurate? an uncertified speedometer observation or a calibrated and tested radar unit reading by a qualified operator?
Even if the officer was a no-show and the OP was the prosecution witness and admitted to doing 83kph in a 80kph zone, that does not relieve the prosecution with the burden of proof that the OP was infact speeding +3kph in a 80 zone beyond a reasonable doubt. The method in which the OP is admitting to speeding is already suspect; the prosecution can not get a conviction based on an uncertified speedo observation
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the practice of showing the speed might be related to reducing roadside trials/arguments, but it's always been a courtesy rather than a requirement.
I dont think so, because of the hill, I didnt see him before when I was at the top/he was at the bottem. That would be a pretty big distance to be honest, because he turned around mid way on the hill. I could be wrong.
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
Some very good observations, have already been made as a former copper who ran radar A LOt in my day..lol Yes the radar can pick you up "at a higher elevation" You estimated the grade to be a 45 degree angle that is one VERY VERY steep hill, it is in reality likely more like 20 degrees. But as was stated the radar beam travels as a "cone shape" and as such the further you are away the greater width of the beam.
Also the faster a vehicle is traveling the further the radar seems to pick it up. I could be sitting in the same spot and have a vehicle go by at 50 km and I would get the reading at best a couple of hundred feet away. A vehicle traveling 90 km I would have the reading locked in before the driver even came into view.
The officer "should" be polite to you, but is under no requirement to do so, (I take from your account of the officer that you felt they were a bit rude by placing the ticket on your bike rather than handing it to you).
As for the "I accidentally gained speed by going down hill" isn't a viable defence it is your responsibility to ensure your vehicle remains at the posted speed limit, (It is commonly referred to as "driving to road conditions"), many think this applies to such things as rain or snow but it also refers to the road grade etc.
You very well may have looked at your speedometer when you spotted the police car, but by then you had already, (likely subconsciously), backed off the gas and braked. You also stated that you had "started to brake to counter the gain in speed due to the hill". He had you locked and loaded before ANY of that happened.
As for the insurance are YOU listed as a driver of the bike, on the policy? Even if your dad drives it most of the time, if you are riding the bike, then you MUST be included as a driver of the vehicle. If your not and you get into an accident it is highly likely the insurance company will refuse to settle. They will also cancel your dads policy, and he will pay a LOT more to get a new insurer. Not to mention if you hurt or kill someone you will be paying for the rest of our life even if it wasn't your fault. Damages for an injury can run into the MILLIONS.
Lastly, no need to "learn how to fight tickets" unless you plan to get a few of them, in which case you may want reconsider riding a bike and go back to a car...lol
Also the faster a vehicle is traveling the further the radar seems to pick it up. I could be sitting in the same spot and have a vehicle go by at 50 km and I would get the reading at best a couple of hundred feet away. A vehicle traveling 90 km I would have the reading locked in before the driver even came into view.
The officer "should" be polite to you, but is under no requirement to do so, (I take from your account of the officer that you felt they were a bit rude by placing the ticket on your bike rather than handing it to you).
As for the "I accidentally gained speed by going down hill" isn't a viable defence it is your responsibility to ensure your vehicle remains at the posted speed limit, (It is commonly referred to as "driving to road conditions"), many think this applies to such things as rain or snow but it also refers to the road grade etc.
You very well may have looked at your speedometer when you spotted the police car, but by then you had already, (likely subconsciously), backed off the gas and braked. You also stated that you had "started to brake to counter the gain in speed due to the hill". He had you locked and loaded before ANY of that happened.
As for the insurance are YOU listed as a driver of the bike, on the policy? Even if your dad drives it most of the time, if you are riding the bike, then you MUST be included as a driver of the vehicle. If your not and you get into an accident it is highly likely the insurance company will refuse to settle. They will also cancel your dads policy, and he will pay a LOT more to get a new insurer. Not to mention if you hurt or kill someone you will be paying for the rest of our life even if it wasn't your fault. Damages for an injury can run into the MILLIONS.
Lastly, no need to "learn how to fight tickets" unless you plan to get a few of them, in which case you may want reconsider riding a bike and go back to a car...lol
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Fins
Well-known member
This is completely irrelevant... do you represent an insurance company or something?
It can simply be said that his dad rides more than him, and OP can be noted down as a secondary rider, I don't see anything wrong with that. There is no way to prove his dad rides more than him or not but like I said, who cares?... Also it's not considered a fraud since the insurance company knows OP is a secondary rider and they can choose to raise the price of the insurance, that's because most insurance companies will give you a quote for the person with highest risk that is able to use that vehicle, since they know the people you live with they can also request for a certain family member to sign an agreement saying that that person won't be using that vehicle.
Please read back through the thread. I was explaining why other posters were saying that this could open a can of worms for the OP.
I haven't even got a trial date. I called and she told me it could take up to late September for them to send me a trial date via mail. So I don't know yet.
Ok thanks. So basically youre saying im toast? I am listed as a secondary driver for clarification.
chiefswallow
Banned
Wow. Thank you very much for posting, very informative first hand information
He basically said your chances of getting found not guilty aren't great. Request disclosure once you get your court date and we'll go over it and see if there's anything insane in it that can get you off (not likely). Your best case (without hiring professional representation) is to plead guilty to a lesser fine. Won't make a difference to your insurance company, but it'll save you a few $$ at least. Keep in mind this may increase your fathers insurance by quite a bit, if he's getting any type of "good driver" discounts currently, and it would apply to ALL his vehicles under his policy, not just the bike
Listen to ALERT, trust me, hire a professional, you will gaurantee the ticket gets thrown out and don't even have to go to court.
I will tell you now, you go your self, you will get laughed at in court by the prosecuter and Judge as you F up and at the end they will rape you and find you guilty anyways.
Hire a LAWYER, and watch the prosecuter put their own vagina and cock in their own mouths and shiit bricks!
I wish i hired lawyers since back when i got my first ticket, first day i got my car, my record would be squeeky clean today!
And i did every trick in the book and net, nothing works, all that effort, time and worry, is not the $300-$500 for lawyer.
I actually had proof i wasn't speeding and the judge said, i trust the cops word, when i even put my hand on the bible and he didn't, there all crooks, get a crook to fight a crook.lol
hire a lawyer budy, don't be cheap, if you don't have money, set a trail one year from now, and save your money, give the disclosure to your lawyer. done deal.
sonyminidiscman
Well-known member
my friend successfully filed an 11b and ticket thrown out from procedure on the net.
I've also been to the court myself, a few time unfortunately, but ALL the paralegals just accept the reduced charges. None of them would actually fight. They are a waste of money.
Maybe a real lawyer might help but could cost you at least 1k... I've had to hire one for a ticket in QC.
Redline has a proven track record of fighting (and generally succeeding) to have tickets entirely dropped. For most of the other paralegals, you are correct, they are useless.
If he has money to blow sure. But by just hiring a paralegal doesn't guarantee an automatic win.
Hey thanks all. Quick update.I had just received my court notice date. Two things to consider; 1) court date is in middle of November in Wasaga beach court house, and 2) my first name was completely spelled wrong (my name is brandon and they spelt it broidon). Whats next? Any ideas especially about the name.
The misspelling isn't material to your case. It's termed "correctable error."
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