Speeding ticket fight

[slogan]

Hi,

There is a speeding ticket (out of Ontario province) for 21 over. The offense happened July last year.

The trail date was scheduled for mid August this year, but I received a phone call last week, and they shift it to mid November.

Yesterday I received the disclosure. And here are the questions:

1. My name is stated wrong in the disclosure. Well, it's only one letter mistaken, but they had my D/L, so it is their mistake, not mine.

2. The RCMP officer stated in his notes, my words, which I said being in affective condition + my bad English. And that is wrong: saying that I just passed a vehicle, because the vehicle I passed, that was few minutes before the place where I was pulled over. There's no passing zone in the area, where I have been pulled over.

3. The officer was on opposite traffic lane. He says, that my "vehicle was the only vehicle in his RADAR beam", but there was a vehicle in front of him and there was a vehicle behind me.

When I came out of the curve and saw vehicles in the opposite lane, I checked my mirrors, to be sure that my buddy was not passing the vehicle that was behind me. So, I could clearly see it.

4. The vehicle behind me was driving with high speed.
This is more complicated point:
I passed a vehicle#1 before the twisty part (there where it was allowed). The vehicle#1 was traveling on 60-70kph, which was below the speed limit (80). My buddy was behind me, but he did not pass that vehicle#1, because the passing zone finished. Then there was a twisty part of the road followed by smooth curve and slope down, where I noted the opposite traffic (with RCMP vehicle).
As it is stated in officer's notes, the second motorcycle (my buddy) was traveling two (2) vehicles behind me. That means that there was another vehicle#2 that passed my buddy and probable the vehicle#1 in a twisty zone = traveling with a higher speed.

5. There was no reason for me to speed, because we were finishing our ride that day, and the turn right I had to take was in 3km = I was checking my GPS frequently: according to GPS my speed was not 21 over for sure!

Any suggestions? All ideas will be appreciated!

Regards,
slogan

 

[redridernl]

Submit your gps as evidence of your speed.

 

[iFly55]

http://canlii.ca/t/2fg2d : R. v. Anghel, 2010 ONCJ 652 (CanLII)

Mr. Anghel said that he tried to object to the officer because at the time he was using both his speedometer and his GPS to keep his speed under 50 kilometres an hour over the speed limit. He said his GPS showed 124 or 125 kilometres an hour. He said he knew he was speeding but that he was watching to make sure he didn’t go over 50 kilometres an hour over the speed limit because he knew the penalties were much higher for that.

He was asked what the function of a GPS is and replied it is to navigate from place to place.
Mr. Anghel agreed that the GPS unit was not designed to measure speed, that its primary purpose was as a navigational tool. The Prosecutor asked if the manufacturer of the GPS unit guarantees the accuracy of the speed reading and the defendant replied “no”. When asked if the manufacturer advises you to rely on the speed reading. The defendant did not know.

Reliability of evidence to the contrary:

The defendant, Mr. Anghel, gave evidence that he believed he was travelling at 124 or 127 kilometres an hour. He said he was relying on his speedometer and his GPS unit to keep his vehicle at a rate of speed just under 50 kilometres an hour over the speed limit.

In addition the speedometer and the GPS unit he was relying on to track his speed have not been established as accurate by any testing. Considering that and the fact that by his own evidence the defendant agrees his speed could fluctuate up or down based on manual pressure on the accelerator I find that the speed the defendant said he was travelling at cannot be relied on to be accurate.

DECISION:

Mr. Anghel gave evidence that he believed he was travelling at a speed of perhaps 127 kilometres an hour. He based that belief on his speedometer reading and also his GPS unit. He acknowledged that he did not know if the GPS unit was capable of giving an accurate speed measurement, he did not give any evidence of having his speedometer checked for accuracy. He also acknowledged that his speed could fluctuate up or down depending on the pressure he put on the accelerator but he believed that he did not go over 130 kilometres an hour at any time. Was his belief reasonable then? I am not satisfied that his belief that he at no time went over the rate of speed that would qualify as stunt driving was a reasonable one in the circumstances considering that he did not take steps to ensure the accuracy of the devices he was relying on and he knew or should have known that his speed would not remain constant but would fluctuate depending on the terrain and his pressure on the accelerator.

It would be ludicrous to suggest that he was exercising due diligence in that situation. I am not satisfied that any defence to this charge has been made out and there will be a conviction for the offence of stunt driving, contrary to section 172(1) of the Highway Traffic Act.

 

[iFly55]

You're going to need to decide whether you're going to testify about your account of the incident OR bring about reasonable doubt in the officer's testimony

I would suggest to request a full copy of the radar manual, to understand how it's operated/tested and moreover it's limitations; how wide is the beam at a particular distance? at an angle what exactly does it pick up?; your s7 Charter gives you the right to make a full answer and mount a proper defense

I would suggest not to testify, don't talk about the GPS or your speedometer... or how fast other vehicles were going or their positions; the best way to get out of this is to discredit the officer's use of the radar during cross-examination

example:

maybe in the RADAR manual you'll find the beam can cover all four vehicles from his vantage point: m1, c1, c2 and m2; and that which vehicle was in the beam can't be determined; moreover you can also find information maybe relating to size, so if there were four vehicles it would pick up the largest and fastest; motorcycle not falling under one of the two categories

during cross examination you can ask the officer to spell your name, that may sway the JP to ultimately rule in your favour if the meat of your x-exam. goes well; hell, you can even ask him what RADAR stands for... i'll bet you all the donuts he will say "No".

you claim there was a vehicle infront of the officer on the oncoming lane, can you maybe draw a rough mspaint diagram of everyone's positions? if the officer says there was other traffic, you can ask him about their positions relative to him

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Contact a paralegal, in the area in which you received the infraction. Provincial laws differ.

Request an interpreter, if you don't have sufficient fluency in English, to properly assist in your defence. This may further delay the proceedings, which could result in a successful 11b stay.

 

[slogan]

I would suggest not to testify, don't talk about the GPS or your speedometer... or how fast other vehicles were going or their positions; the best way to get out of this is to discredit the officer's use of the radar during cross-examination

Thanks!
Yeh, I won't be talking about GPS at all, as it is not the speed measuring device (I just saw the speed at GPS when was checking what distance left to the turn). I exactly remember all vehicles position, and I will draw it. I hope that the vehicle that was in front of RCMP guy is the one of the points.

Yah, as far as I have some time left before November, I will send a request for additional information: RADAR Manual.

Contact a paralegal, in the area in which you received the infraction. Provincial laws differ.

Request an interpreter, if you don't have sufficient fluency in English, to properly assist in your defence. This may further delay the proceedings, which could result in a successful 11b stay.

Thanks Rob.
Well, here comes the point, that I do not get some special/official terminology. I probably have to try with an interpreter...

 

[slogan]

OK.

In RCMP's notes it is said, that

"Cst. * noted that this vehicle (my bike) was the only vehicle in his RADAR beam and he heard crystal clear audio doppler."
The thing is, that there was a car in front of the RCMP all the way. He was going uphills, I was going down and there was a vehicle behind me.
RCMP says "As Cst.* locked the vehicle speed there were three other vehicles that came around the corner."
He never mentioned a vehicle in front of him.

How can I use it?
Can it be something like this:
"Sir, do you remember if there was a vehicle in front of your patrol car or not?"

• if he replies "YES" - then "Does it mean, that there could be an another vehicle in the RADAR beam between the patrol car and the motorcycle, that has bigger size, than the motorcycle?"
• if he replies "NO" - then the same question.
• if he replies "there was no vehicle" - he is lying! But how can I prove that?

 

[jeffjones]

Hi,
The offense happened July last year.

The trail date was scheduled for mid August this year, but I received a phone call last week, and they shift it to mid November.

Try filing out the 11b paperwork if your coming up on 16 months later....

 

[slogan]

Try filing out the 11b paperwork if your coming up on 16 months later....

Does that 11b work in all provinces?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

11b is a section of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Yes; Federal.

If by 'vehicle in front of the officer' you mean travelling in the same direction, then it won't help you. It wouldn't give the speed reading, that would result in an incorrect lock. Its speed would essentially register as zero.

 

[slogan]

11b is a section of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Yes; Federal.

If by 'vehicle in front of the officer' you mean travelling in the same direction, then it won't help you. It wouldn't give the speed reading, that would result in an incorrect lock. Its speed would essentially register as zero.

Thanks.

So, it means, that the main question is to show, that those vehicles that where behind me, showed up earlier than the RCMP said.
As I probably mentioned before, once I got out of the curve and saw upcoming vehicles, I checked the mirror right away to be sure that my buddy was not trying to pass the vehicle (I passed only 1 vehicle before twisty started). The upcoming vehicles (bunch of them) were inline, and the vehicle behind me was not far behind. Next moment I saw that the second vehicle was the police, that moment I checked GPS to see where is my turn - it was about 3km left. The next moment once the police car was closer it initiated its flashlights and signal made a U-turn behind a vehicle, that was behind me.
So, the thing is, if I passed only one vehicle before the curves started, and then there was another one (which is stated in RCMP's notes), it means that there was at least one vehicle behind me traveling fast and making dangerous passing (of my biker buddy) in twisty area, where is no passing zone.
The one that I passed was a cherry-red avenger size/style, the another one was gray.
It means that I have to do some good geometry outlay, to show, that that would be possible, that between the time, when RCMP saw me as "only one vehicle" and the time, he could initiate his radar in a "clear view of RADAR beam" (when the vehicle in front of RCMP car was not inline), the other at least on vehicle was behind me. (sorry for my English)

At the same time, I have to get through that 11b, because between beginning of July 2011 and mid of November 2012 - there's more than 16 month (and it's not a delay from my side)...

 

[Rob MacLennan]

You might want to sign up to a BC motorcycle forum, to see what they say about the delay out there. Here, thirteen months is when you start getting into 11b territory. Don't know about there.

 

[slogan]

That had happen in NS

Thanks for advice

 

[slogan]

So, I start seeing new additional point: it looks like the fine written by the officer is higher, than it should be. Is the fine Chart the same for all provinces, or it can be different?

 

[OpenGambit]

So, I start seeing new additional point: it looks like the fine written by the officer is higher, than it should be. Is the fine Chart the same for all provinces, or it can be different?

different.

 

[slogan]

So, I have to find a fine schedules for NovaScotia. Any idea?

 

[Major]

So, I have to find a fine schedules for NovaScotia. Any idea?

Google is your friend. Took me 20 seconds to find a document outlining everything you need to know about tickets, fines, etc in Nova Scotia.

Sheesh. Some people just too lazy to do their own leg work.

 

[Joe250]

Google is your friend. Took me 20 seconds to find a document outlining everything you need to know about tickets, fines, etc in Nova Scotia.

Sheesh. Some people just too lazy to do their own leg work.

And instead of just posting link which would have taken you a second to help someone you typed out a story just to mock the guy?

Class act.

 

[Major]

And instead of just posting link which would have taken you a second to help someone you typed out a story just to mock the guy?

Class act.

Give him the fish or teach him to fish. Motorcycling is a tough business. Need to man up and lift yourself by your own bootstraps.

 

[Joe250]

Give him the fish or teach him to fish. Motorcycling is a tough business. Need to man up and lift yourself by your own bootstraps.

Some people aren't tech savvy, if you wanted to be snarky you could have at least linked him the link using lmgtfy.com, which is snarky and amusing at the same time.