Speeding ticket 15 over. | GTAMotorcycle.com

Speeding ticket 15 over.

Matthew.Tremayne

Well-known member
Got a ticket with a friend on Raglan Rd & Ritson Rd N.

26 over, friend was hit with radar. We were both on DS bikes and have it recorded on a GoPro.

It was dropped to 15 over. $52.50 ticket. Price doesn't matter, it's the fact that I don't want a ticket on my license....

He pulled friend over and I pulled over with him. I was going slower than friend.

Should I just pay the ticket and be done with it, or is there something I can do?
 
There were two bikes in close proximity and he ticketed both based on a single radar hit? On the surface it sounds actionable on your part but I dunno.
 
Sounds like the cop is just assuming you were going the same speed because you guys were travelling together.

At a distance, how would a cop be able to gauge your speed in comparison to another vehicle? The cop can't just make assumptions and give you a ticket for what speed he thinks you're going...

Would likely be one worth fighting.
 
There are three methods of determining speed for a traffic ticket, which are permitted in Ontario. They are LASER/RADAR, pacing, and timing between two known fixed points. "He was going the same speed as the other dude" is not one of the permitted methods.
 
Yep, I'm going to court on this one. Getting the disclosure.
 
Have your friend request disclosure/trial at the same time. It will be complicated for them to get you both on 1 radar hit, if the cop says he shot twice and got each bike and they were going the same speed, then submit video to show they are lying. To submit video there is a process to follow, look into it.
 
Got a ticket with a friend on Raglan Rd & Ritson Rd N.

26 over, friend was hit with radar. We were both on DS bikes and have it recorded on a GoPro.

It was dropped to 15 over. $52.50 ticket. Price doesn't matter, it's the fact that I don't want a ticket on my license....

He pulled friend over and I pulled over with him. I was going slower than friend.

Should I just pay the ticket and be done with it, or is there something I can do?

How much slower? Were you still in the "speeding range?".
 
Yep, I'm going to court on this one. Getting the disclosure.

yes, do it. The cop should have used better judgement and not assume you were the same speed. Not sure how he can say he got you BOTH ? Were you both shown separate readings on the radar gun? Will be interesting to see his notes. I hope you BOTH challenge this.
Take note of what GreyGhost mentioned too. Theres a procedure for bringing in your evidence.
 
I would setup a First Attendance meeting, and make sure you both attend at the same time, and see what they say, when you ask how it's possible for the cop to charge you both with speeding, wouldn't be surprised if both tickets were dismissed, this of course is as soon as you both have full disclosure in your hands to see what the cop says how he did this feat.....

.
 
Be very careful with your video and letting the courts know of it's existence. I don't know what the rules are wrt them requesting a full, unedited copy of what you have. I am sure others may have been through this before.

If your video shows you speeding (even if it is just 1 km/h over, not the 26 the officer said), you are guilty of speeding which is what you were charged with.

If they manage to obtain the full video, is there anything else they could charge you with? I think the camera was on a *** minute loop and the beginning of the data you have was about 30 seconds prior to the officer seeing you and you shut the camera off before pulling back onto the street (wink wink nudge nudge).
 
Be very careful with your video and letting the courts know of it's existence. I don't know what the rules are wrt them requesting a full, unedited copy of what you have. I am sure others may have been through this before.

If your video shows you speeding (even if it is just 1 km/h over, not the 26 the officer said), you are guilty of speeding which is what you were charged with.

I would action that too if the video is showing my speedo and that's what's used against me (i.e. it's showing me a few KMs over the limit.) I would challenge their use of uncalibrated equipment for speed determination.

There would need to be some sort of extrapolation of speed from known fixed markers in the field of view of the camera which carries another set of difficulties...
 
yes, do it. The cop should have used better judgement and not assume you were the same speed. Not sure how he can say he got you BOTH ? Were you both shown separate readings on the radar gun? Will be interesting to see his notes. I hope you BOTH challenge this.
Take note of what GreyGhost mentioned too. Theres a procedure for bringing in your evidence.

He never showed either of us readings from the gun. We were just polite and took the tickets. He said "those are nice bikes and you are nice young guys so I'm only going to give you a 15 over". I personally thought the road was an 80 and we were doing under 80 lol. Guess we both thought wrong. At least we weren't being total idiots going warp speed!
 
I would action that too if the video is showing my speedo and that's what's used against me (i.e. it's showing me a few KMs over the limit.) I would challenge their use of uncalibrated equipment for speed determination.

There would need to be some sort of extrapolation of speed from known fixed markers in the field of view of the camera which carries another set of difficulties...

You have to be careful blaming your own equipment. If the officer says you were going 26 over and your speedometer showed you weren't speeding, that sets you up for an unsafe vehicle charge. If your speedometer shows you were over the limit, yes it is uncalibrated but you chose to exceed the posted limit(or didn't pay attention). Using the best available information you had at the time, you should have known you were speeding. Now you can push back on that too (within limits) by saying you have checked it vs pavement markers and your speedo reads 10% high, therefore the indicated 87 km/h is actually 79 km/h but the point is to get out of these as simply as possible, not to have to fight your way out tooth and nail.

Again, these are long-shots and as the OP sounded like he was polite during the stop, I doubt the officer would go there, but you just need to think through the whole process and make sure you don't help the crown secure a conviction.
 
He never showed either of us readings from the gun. We were just polite and took the tickets. He said "those are nice bikes and you are nice young guys so I'm only going to give you a 15 over".

I would strongly suggest removing the third last sentence of your post.
 
Let me clarify a couple of things, they can't request to be tried together they are two individuals charged with a separate charge. They can ask to speak to the prosecutor and it may be dismissed there. As for "seeing separate readings on the radar gun" the officer has no requirement to show you the speed on the gun. The gun doesn't "log" readings so only the last reading recorded is visible.

Disclosure is your best defence, see what his notes state. Unless his notes state that he tagged your friends bike then tagged your bike YOU have a viable defence, your friend doesn't. Also keep in mind if the crown doesn't want to deal and you go to trial you will go at the full speed as recorded not the 15 over speed, (That is directed more to your friend then you, because I think you have a good chance of winning).

As for the Video, I wouldn't play the card above the video is on a timed loop etc, the crown may ask you to demonstrate how you set the camera to the setting as they couldn't find it anywhere in the manual. Then when you admit there is no such setting then they look at the JP and say if you have misled the court about this are you also misleading the court about your speed? The video will simply show the officer at a distance you likely can't see that much detail as to what he/she is doing, (IE can you show they only pointed the radar gun once)? But let's say it shows him pointing the gun once and pulling you and your friend over. Now the crown has video evidence that he/she recorded the bike speed, and stopped the correct vehicle. So your friend no longer has a defence. Then they go to your trial, they play the video say it shows you basically traveling at the same distance from your friends bike. The crown then says "Your honor the front bike in this video was charged and convicted of speeding we can clearly see that the defendant was traveling at a speed VERY close to matching that bike, as they remained constant in the distance between the bikes, therefore I submit both bikes were indeed speeding as charged. Or the crown says, was your friend convicted of speeding, (presuming he/she was), You answer yes. Then under oath please tell this court were you also speeding as the video seems to show? Even if you think you were doing 5 km over, the honest answer is yes, I was speeding. Point, game, match to the crown.

Not saying you would be convicted just demonstrating to you that there is MUCH to consider BEFORE you offer video evidence to the crown and to the court. Just as the crown has to disclose their evidence against you, if you intend to introduce the video then it must be disclosed and a full copy given to the crown for their review. So as Grey ghost says make sure the entire video hows you riding properly not speeding nor stunting in ANY manner. It truly can be a double edged sword.

Be very careful with your video and letting the courts know of it's existence. I don't know what the rules are wrt them requesting a full, unedited copy of what you have. I am sure others may have been through this before.

If your video shows you speeding (even if it is just 1 km/h over, not the 26 the officer said), you are guilty of speeding which is what you were charged with.

If they manage to obtain the full video, is there anything else they could charge you with? I think the camera was on a *** minute loop and the beginning of the data you have was about 30 seconds prior to the officer seeing you and you shut the camera off before pulling back onto the street (wink wink nudge nudge).
 
You have to be careful blaming your own equipment.

Not "blaming" the equipment per se. If a video shows my speedo and it reads 'X' I don't see how that can be used by police or a prosecutor as evidence of my actual speed.

You mentioned "1 km/h over" and I would fight that or any similarly low value. My speedo (as is likely just-about all but police speedos...) is not calibrated & traceable to a national standard and in a case like that (or one of 5 or even 10 over) probably wouldn't be admissible as evidence of anything, sort of like how an out-of-calibration and errant *cough* breathalyzer can't be assured to deliver a suspect's actual level of intoxication.

Of course, if my speedo shows 240kph and I'm clearly not stationary (e.g. on a dyno), there's going to be trouble, since the absolute value is swamping any uncertainty or error in the speedo; even if the speedo is reading a worst-case 15% fast, I'm still going at least 209km/h and that ain't legal anywhere in NA.
 
Next time don't pull over I am not saying run I am saying only one vehicle needs to pull over. If the cop goes by after you pull over get back on the road and moving again wait for your friend further down the road

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
Next time don't pull over I am not saying run I am saying only one vehicle needs to pull over. If the cop goes by after you pull over get back on the road and moving again wait for your friend further down the road

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Unlike some people, I don't leave anyone behind. Friend or not, that's just not who I am. If someone crashed, I'm there to help (dealt with that before). If someone is pulled over, or a new rider struggling to keep up, I will stay with them and guide them.

Some people are selfish, others are selfless. Do things always end up great for me? No, but at least I have their utmost respect at the end of the day.

Same reasoning for me using my name here on this forum.
 
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