Some actual science on a touchy subject....darksiding | GTAMotorcycle.com

Some actual science on a touchy subject....darksiding

Morrissey

Morrissey

Well-known member
I know that there are a few riders on here like myself who enjoy taking LONG rides and some of you may have already switched to the darkside. Personally, I'm not a fan. But often when I get into a conversation about this subject with a convert, they rarely have any actual evidence to prove why their choice is a good idea. They simply spout off the savings to be had and that everyone who hasn't seen the power of the darkside is still blinded by the dogma of the tyrannical motorcycle tire industry who are bent on stealing your money by making you pay higher prices for tires that don't last as long as car tires! Enter Fort Nine and another of their great videos. In this one they don't pass judgment, they simply try and relay the science at work and hope to shed some light on the subject. They point out the good, bad and ugly of the darkside.

It's entirely possible that I am opening a can of worms here, but hey, it's winter. What else have we got to do?


 
I would say that these "dark siders" probably don't ride very well in the first place, or they would notice the ill handling effects when riding a motorcycle properly.
They've got highway pegs & crash bars so wide that they can't lean more than a coupla degrees without grinding pavement anyway. They shuffle along fully vertical in the parades they attend at every chance. They stay right in line with all the mini vans & SUVs on the highway, at or bellow the limit. The only "twisties" they ever attack are called pretzels.
I know I shouldn't ... but, get a fuggin job... buy a real motorcycle tyre !!.
 
Only thing I noticed is sealing up the spoke nuts with 3M 5200. That stuff is an adhesive sealant for sticking things together permanently, they would bend stainless steel ever trying to get that rim apart or adjusted. 3M 4200 for something you may need to dismantle some day.
 
A novel idea, but... I see no reason compelling enough to try "dark-siding".
 
I noticed darksiders mostly in the southern US. Big bikes that travel interstates use them to save money on tires. There are a few 'installers' in Ontario they claim to offer advice on tire selection and installation.

Darkside Tire Info Center has a lot of stats.
 
Looks like plausible suicide to me. I can't see much savings logic either, except maybe on a heavy long-distance tourer. You've really got to be a cheapskate to play that game. I have my own MC tire changer. Takes me 20 minutes to change and balance after getting the rim off the bike. There's a lot of choice out there for motorcycles, you don't have to pay a lot. Guys who use a car tire must only be doing it for looks, or to create an impression on a show bike. I can't see a sport bike or ADV guy playing that game. No reasonable intelligence to it.
 
I suppose up front purchase there may be some savings, $50 ?

if you're actually able to get 100,000 km on the rear, without dying
some potential big savings I suppose, so it is a cheap-out thing to do

too cheap even for a Scot
 
I read of a guy with a gl1800 that was afraid his mc tire would explode. He weighed 300lb and his wife was about the same. Hmmm?
 
I mean on a 1000lb cruiser that the rider isn't leaning past 10 degrees I can see why they say it feels no different. And yeah last a ton longer. Putting this on even an adventure bike is silly, that is ridden on the side profile more often like a motorcycle should be....
 
A lot of Darksiders also go double darkside. They mount a rear tire on the front wheel.
 
I'm enjoying seeing all the head scratching going on on this forum. It's nice to be among sane people for a change! Over on the IronButt forum Darksiders are very prevalent and are just as loud and fanatical about using car tires on a bike as the most ardent anti-vaxers or flat-earthers! Anyone who dares challenge their "wisdom" is met with demands to prove that they aren't riding the twisties just as fast as those with regular mc tires, demands of proof where there was an issue with an insurance company regarding the use of CT's on a bike, mockery and pity that you haven't "seen the light". Some of them will claim that it is just a big conspiracy on the part of the tire manufacturers to "rip off" motorcycle riders by providing them with "inferior" tires that don't last nearly as long. I've even seen down right anger towards those who are skeptical or disagree! Hit them with simple logic that literally EVERY motorcycle and tire engineer on the planet says that it is an UNSAFE idea to use a CT on a motorcycle and they will reply with skepticism about the credentials of these "engineers" and calls for these "engineers" to try it with full belief that they will be converted if they were to simply try it too. They believe the anecdotal evidence of shadetree mechanics who tell them what they want to hear.

It may surprise you just who is being seduced by the darkside. Sure, there are those you would expect, Harley Electraglides and Roadglides, Honda Goldwings and Valkyries, Yamaha Ventures and Kawasaki Voyagers, but other, less likely converts. Excellent handling sport tourers like the FJR, ST11/13 and the Concours. BMW GS's, R1200RT's and K1600's, even ZX14's, Bandit 1200's and CBR1100's all have surprising numbers of converts. You will see folks bragging about how they put 100,000mi on a CT mounted on the rear of their bike and how it only cost them $100-$150 vs needing 4-5 MC rear tires to cover the same distance and how those MC tires are $150+. To give you an idea of how far gone some of these riders are, I used to know a motorcycle shop owner who offered one of his oldest, best clients MC tires at cost if they would switch back from the darkside and the guy wouldn't take him up on the offer!

I know I have been bit by the LD bug. I have plans to do the Great Lakes circle and the Lake Huron Circle this coming season and dreams of completing the cross Canada 90 and the 50cc one day. Even though I don't get out as much as I would like, the last 2 seasons my average km's/ride equaled out to 500km/ride. However, I still just don't get the whole darkside thing. I love that motorcycles are so far removed from 4 wheeled vehicles and I guess at the end of the day I just can't understand modifying my bike to be less bike-like.
 
El_Destructo said:
I would say that these "dark siders" probably don't ride very well in the first place, or they would notice the ill handling effects when riding a motorcycle properly.
They've got highway pegs & crash bars so wide that they can't lean more than a coupla degrees without grinding pavement anyway. They shuffle along fully vertical in the parades they attend at every chance. They stay right in line with all the mini vans & SUVs on the highway, at or bellow the limit. The only "twisties" they ever attack are called pretzels.
I know I shouldn't ... but, get a fuggin job... buy a real motorcycle tyre !!.
Click to expand...
Not so fast El D. When I owned a wing I looked into this and although I didn't go that route I saw a lot of evidence of those who had. They pushing a lot harder than your disparaging comments would warrant.
 
Morrissey said:
I'm enjoying seeing all the head scratching going on on this forum. It's nice to be among sane people for a change! Over on the IronButt forum Darksiders are very prevalent and are just as loud and fanatical about using car tires on a bike as the most ardent anti-vaxers or flat-earthers! Anyone who dares challenge their "wisdom" is met with demands to prove that they aren't riding the twisties just as fast as those with regular mc tires, demands of proof where there was an issue with an insurance company regarding the use of CT's on a bike, mockery and pity that you haven't "seen the light". Some of them will claim that it is just a big conspiracy on the part of the tire manufacturers to "rip off" motorcycle riders by providing them with "inferior" tires that don't last nearly as long. I've even seen down right anger towards those who are skeptical or disagree! Hit them with simple logic that literally EVERY motorcycle and tire engineer on the planet says that it is an UNSAFE idea to use a CT on a motorcycle and they will reply with skepticism about the credentials of these "engineers" and calls for these "engineers" to try it with full belief that they will be converted if they were to simply try it too. They believe the anecdotal evidence of shadetree mechanics who tell them what they want to hear.

It may surprise you just who is being seduced by the darkside. Sure, there are those you would expect, Harley Electraglides and Roadglides, Honda Goldwings and Valkyries, Yamaha Ventures and Kawasaki Voyagers, but other, less likely converts. Excellent handling sport tourers like the FJR, ST11/13 and the Concours. BMW GS's, R1200RT's and K1600's, even ZX14's, Bandit 1200's and CBR1100's all have surprising numbers of converts. You will see folks bragging about how they put 100,000mi on a CT mounted on the rear of their bike and how it only cost them $100-$150 vs needing 4-5 MC rear tires to cover the same distance and how those MC tires are $150+. To give you an idea of how far gone some of these riders are, I used to know a motorcycle shop owner who offered one of his oldest, best clients MC tires at cost if they would switch back from the darkside and the guy wouldn't take him up on the offer!

I know I have been bit by the LD bug. I have plans to do the Great Lakes circle and the Lake Huron Circle this coming season and dreams of completing the cross Canada 90 and the 50cc one day. Even though I don't get out as much as I would like, the last 2 seasons my average km's/ride equaled out to 500km/ride. However, I still just don't get the whole darkside thing. I love that motorcycles are so far removed from 4 wheeled vehicles and I guess at the end of the day I just can't understand modifying my bike to be less bike-like.
Click to expand...
On a "proper" high mileage riding trip, longer life would be appreciated. The last trip one week trip I took on the Ape, I started with a new rear and got home with lots of cords showing on the rear. I took the wheel in a car to get it changed because it was very dodgy and I didn't trust riding it anymore. I haven't done enough research to know if a car tire is the right answer for me, but I do know having spare tires and change locations lined up on a trip sucks.
 
To me the only advantage to a car tire is the availability of a run flat. The technical aspects have been debated to death.

If the riding couple exceeds the tire weight (Don't forget her make-up trailer) it's unlikely the rest of the bike is safe for the ride.

If you need a massive bike because of your weight and have to consider costs just buy a car. Big bikes are not fuel efficient.

Not everyone belongs on a bike or in a Speedo / bikini.
 
My doctor used to say, 'we are the guinea pigs for the next generation'. Meaning that by treating our aliments with currently approved medicine now, may be discovered to be totally unsafe in the next generation, so a few of us will die to learn that lesson. And so it goes with motorcycle tires..... thank you to all of you who risk their lives in the interests of science, so I might remain safe.
 
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