Small Reno Job - Windows

[black_CG2]

My friend wants to hire me to sand his window edges and re paint them. I could use a palm sander to sand the window edges. I don't know how much to charge him and how long the job will take or the complexity of the job. 3 windows are on 2nd floor and a ladder is required. I am little uncomfortable with height but at 2nd floor I should be okay.

I have attached some pics. Let me know your thoughts guys.

 

[oioioi]

I think one of these would work better than a palm sander. Especially a cordless version.
Allows to get into the corners much better.
You should price it into the job.


This is where it gets tricky with doing jobs for friends.
Asking too much, you are more of an A**hole than a friend.
Asking too little, you are a friend who is used for favors.

But this is a time consuming favor. Not technical or difficult but a pain int he ass to do. I think you need at least 1+ hour per window.
If I counted right, that is 13 windows in there. So 13-15 hours. Say you do it at $20/hr. That's $260-$300.
Are you comfortable spending 1-2 days doing this for $300? I don't think I would want to.

 

[nobbie48]

If you were a contractor and were paying an employee to do the work you would have to estimate the labour based on the minimum wage. The hours involved will depend on the expected quality of finish. If you do the job by doing a fast slap-it-on will your friend be upset?

At least one of the basement windows has had a butcher paint job. Does he expect this to be corrected?

To do it right I would start with a scraper, keeping it sharp with a single cut file. Depending on how many coats of paint are on the windows and the nature of the underlying wood it could take a while. How many coats of paint after the final sanding? What about re-caulking the windows?

What kind of paint is on the windows now? Is a new paint compatible? I liked oil but it's taboo now and the replacement doesn't flow as well.

In the bad old days the process was a wire brushing, a quick wipe and a lick of paint. It could be as little as an hour or two per window. If the window is complex how do you keep from painting it shut?

I could see a proper restoration of the windows taking a day each.

Safety: The working at heights legislation came about because working off ladders and swing stages is inherently dangerous. Long stretches on ladder can damage your arches, Plantar fasciitis. There are other potential liabilities.

I have the talents of a handyman but only do things for myself. Good handymen are under rated and under paid.

As oioioi comments, working for friends can get awkward. If you're shoulder to shoulder it's not too bad but a for-hire situation creates a master servant relationship. Negotiation is too personal and a lot of people have no idea what things cost in the real world or are unprepared to pay the rate.

 

[matt365]

They look like vinyl windows... how are you expected to paint anything?

The steel lintel shouldn't be painted... its bleeding rust through.

The caulking looks like it was done by a 4 year old..

The cement work and parging needs to be chipped out and re-done on the bottom window.

Check for a date code on the glass to see how old they are.

Maybe have a window guy cap them with aluminum and re-caulk, or if they are old and done; tell your friend to save his money and have them replaced down the line.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

 

[Trials]

Yep, what he said, there is nothing to sand there, you might as well spend your time digging out the old calking and doing it right. lol they didn't even clean up the broken concrete from the previous window replacement job, customer must be easy to please.

 

[black_CG2]

Damn...I hate to deal with caulking. You guys are right about working with a friend. Maybe I will just ask him to hire someone else.

 

[POWERMAN]

Are you insured?
Not to be a negative Nancy, but I know of one painter who fell off his ladder (it slipped as someone dropped liquid by the feet) and broke BOTH arms ..pins and metal inserted all the way from his shoulders down to his fingers to set the bones right.

His wife had to bathe him, feed him, dress him and wipe his @ss for 6 months as his healing took longer given his age (~45+ years at the time).

Better to err on the side of caution when it comes to these things..

 

[GreyGhost]

I wouldnt do it for all the reasons listed above.

If you do it
1) they look like vinyl on my phone. Painting vinyl does not end well
2)no cordless sander will work. They have run times of minutes, you need hours.
3)If they were wood and the paint was in terrible shape or previously butchered, a quick scrape and then makita gv5010 gets the rough work done very quickly. Buy some extra backing pads, they will get chewed up as you try to get into notches and corners. For easily visible surfaces, a dual action sander to remove the swirls the makita left (for the face parallel to the wall on the 2nd floor, no one can see the swirls). You will need to hand sand in corners and details.
4) get great paint. This is a lot of work and you want to get it done in as few coats as possible and for it to last as long as possible. Normally windows are long neglected so I use great paint over great primer.
5) I dont know about doing this off a ladder, your feet will be very unhappy. I would setup a section of scaffolding on wheels (lock before you climb). You will have to go up and down and move the ladder two or three times for each window at each step of the process.

 

[Trials]

ya you would even need to be ladder certified, hard hat, steel toes, tied off and have a health & safety meeting with yourself before you begin work, unless you are working on your own house.

I would try a wide wood chisel that I was willing to destroy and see if the calking can be shaved flat to the window frame, or dig at it and haul the old calking out completely, low expansion foam to fill the voids and skim it over with a new layer of grey calking to make it exterior again, white paint and calking on white window was a bad idea.

 

[mbroyda]

dont do work for friends

 

[sburns]

dont do work for friends

Exactly... not worth it!

 

[Gary]

Wash / clean that ****. (Ajax, Comet powder works good on vinyl)
After that, they'll look 80% better.
Take a wire brush and remove flakey old paint.
Knife, screwdriver, whatever works to dig out old caulking.
Don't use a sander, sandpaper, or anything abrasive on the vinyl.
Repaint. Recaulk.
Or. Cap them.

 

[nobbie48]

Helping a friend:

A while back a buddy called me asking for a hand in replacing his Arborite kitchen counter tops. I went over expecting to assist but ended up taking down the measurements and making a drawing for the manufacturer. It was a large U shaped top with a double sink.

The new top arrives, we check the back dimensions and tear out the old top. It folds in half at the sink cut out. The new top slips almost into place but doesn't fit. Buddy is giving me the evil eye and I'm thinking this is a freebie for him and does he expect me to pay for whatever is wrong. I double check measurements against the drawing and whew, they made it 25" wide but the drawing said 26". The company makes it good but buddy and family eats at McD's for a week.

Then buddy pulls out the new sink and it's a couple of inches deeper so the drains can't match up. It took some creative hacksaw work to avoid breaking into the wall.

While I enjoy that people have confidence in my skills it bothers me that they think I work miracles.

If you're not in the trades you probably don't understand.

 

[mimico_polak]

I'm all for helping friends with small jobs around their house, but have learned that when money exchange takes place the dynamic of the relationship changes.
There's always the 'well I expected this that and the other for the price' and then what do you do?
Not only that, you're taking money for a job at considerable height...personally I'd rent a Genie or some kind of lift to reach the space as I hate ladders, and they're the #1 killers on a job site (IIRC from my Working at Heights training).

I don't know enough about the actual work required (and plenty here have good ideas) just be sure it's worth it. A small Genie / lift is about $300-500/day. Rent it for Saturday and you can get Friday/Saturday/Sunday for the price of a single day sometimes if the guy behind the counter is cool with it.

Good luck, and be safe as ladders are dangerous.

 

[Trials]

I bought 3 lifts worth of scaffold to work on my last house, absolutely hate the stuff, but it would be far better then working off a ladder.

 

[mimico_polak]

I bought 3 lifts worth of scaffold to work on my last house, absolutely hate the stuff, but it would be far better then working off a ladder.

Yup. Real pain in the *** to tear down and re-build a few feet over. This is why we rented the Genie. 3 days for the price of one...super easy.

 

[GreyGhost]

While I enjoy that people have confidence in my skills it bothers me that they think I work miracles.

If you're not in the trades you probably don't understand.

I will advise, but upfront I make sure that the person paying is the "responsible party". I've had a look at the boat and I see blistering gelcoat, xxx is broken and someone has hacked up the wiring, it is now your problem to decide whether to buy it and what a fair price is. I measured the counter for you, you check the measurements, or better yet, get the counter people to do it so if there are any issues it is all on them. Etc.

 

[GreyGhost]

Yup. Real pain in the *** to tear down and re-build a few feet over. This is why we rented the Genie. 3 days for the price of one...super easy.

Thats what wheels are for. Hell if you are just moving a single section one storey high (lets be honest, you aren't building the top lift to use as guardrails), a few people feeling strong, just pick it up and walk.

 

[Trials]

Fixing sailboats good money to be made there if the owner doesn't go broke before the work is done.

 

[mimico_polak]

Thats what wheels are for. Hell if you are just moving a single section one storey high (lets be honest, you aren't building the top lift to use as guardrails), a few people feeling strong, just pick it up and walk.

For sure. Our last job was 2.5 stories on grass...I wish we had wheels but we ended up removing the scaffold and re-building it between each space. Good thing was it was multiple windows in a single vertical line.

Our house now, where I need to access the roof...the higher roof is over concrete so it's easy with scaffold, but it's almost 3 stories tall. And the smaller roof I just go atop it, as it's only about 3m high, and flat enough that I can get to the edge safely. Plus there's a garden bed there which prevents any scaffold/ladder to those areas. Genie is a simple extension and done.

Scissor lift would work around the rest of the house as the Genie would never fit through the gate, or make the corner around. Or I'd have to take down a section of fence to get it into the backyard.