Signs or common sense? | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Signs or common sense?

We were saying about signage and making sure things are properly cordoned off...

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Various reports of cones being moved...but there's a big yellow fence that's there...so someone had to move it to get the car in.
 
mimico_polak said:
We were saying about signage and making sure things are properly cordoned off...

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Various reports of cones being moved...but there's a big yellow fence that's there...so someone had to move it to get the car in.
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And also had no eyes. Honestly. That's a pretty visible hole, even at night (with all the sleepers in). We have reached the point where most drivers just hit the gas and expect nothing to impede their progress.
 
GreyGhost said:
Criminal charges dropped. No big surprise there.

www.cp24.com

Criminal charges dropped against construction company in Barrie crash that killed 6

Criminal charges have been withdrawn against an Ontario construction company in connection with the deaths of six people who were killed after the vehicle they were travelling in plunged into a deep concrete pit at a construction site in Barrie last summer.
www.cp24.com www.cp24.com
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Yup.

Owners are the De Gasperis family. Their name appears once or twice along with Doug Ford's name and the Greenbelt.
 
matthew said:
I'm just saying their name is out there.
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They have been one of the largest family-owned development companies for decades. No real mystery or surprises there. They hired Heinen who is a pitbull. She's very expensive but very good. Public prosecutors were going to have a rough ride (and high probability that investigation/prosecution would come out with tons of egg on their faces).

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be held responsible if there were issues found but a criminal prosecution for a death on a closed road always seemed like a stretch to show that something was being done. More theatre than reality.
 
GreyGhost said:
They have been one of the largest family-owned development companies for decades. No real mystery or surprises there. They hired Heinen who is a pitbull. She's very expensive but very good. Public prosecutors were going to have a rough ride (and high probability that investigation/prosecution would come out with tons of egg on their faces).

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be held responsible if there were issues found but a criminal prosecution for a death on a closed road always seemed like a stretch to show that something was being done. More theatre than reality.
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I guess it avoids the SNC watered down charge nonsense to avoid a criminal record.
 
nobbie48 said:
I guess it avoids the SNC watered down charge nonsense to avoid a criminal record.
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Don't you mean AtkinsRealis? The government of Canada has an entire anti-corruption department to monitor Canadian companies that did bad things. For quite a while, the only company being monitored was snc.
 
To be blunt, the people who died in the crash were responsible for their own stupidity, and it's too late to charge them.

I doubt if the construction company did anything out of the ordinary. I know the roads were clearly marked as closed.
 
Brian P said:
To be blunt, the people who died in the crash were responsible for their own stupidity, and it's too late to charge them.

I doubt if the construction company did anything out of the ordinary. I know the roads were clearly marked as closed.
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I sadly agree. If they had managed to crash through the barrier but stop on the edge and require a tow truck to pull them out, surely they would be the ones going to court and not the construction company. The only real reason the construction company was charged was for the optics to show "something" being done to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.
 
GreyGhost said:
Don't you mean AtkinsRealis? The government of Canada has an entire anti-corruption department to monitor Canadian companies that did bad things. For quite a while, the only company being monitored was snc.
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I missed the name change.
 
Relax said:
I sadly agree. If they had managed to crash through the barrier but stop on the edge and require a tow truck to pull them out, surely they would be the ones going to court and not the construction company. The only real reason the construction company was charged was for the optics to show "something" being done to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.
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The driver posted videos earlier in the night showing her driving over 100 mph. Almost no level of protection could have saved them from their youthful stupidity. It was a tragedy but those most at fault have already paid for their sins.
 
Brian P said:
To be blunt, the people who died in the crash were responsible for their own stupidity, and it's too late to charge them.

I doubt if the construction company did anything out of the ordinary. I know the roads were clearly marked as closed.
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There are definitely beefed up controls now. Before entries were well signed with lots of cones/flags/wooden barriers but after they added jersey barriers on the inbound lanes. That forces drivers to actively change to oncoming lanes to enter. Not a terrible idea for a long-term closure but afaik, not one required by any regulation (yet, I wouldn't be surprised if that got added). They also have a gate they close on the outbound lanes at night (not sure how the people that live inside the perimeter deal with that).

I have no idea what the barriers/signs/flags looked like deep inside the site as you can't see that far without violating the perimeter. I highly suspect that having no jersey barriers close to the open pit will get them in some trouble (although not criminal). Road wasn't fully closed and local traffic was still allowed. You could even have a construction vehicle not paying attention that falls in. That condition existed for a very long time (months), it wasn't just a day and it would be fixed tomorrow.
 
MOL very rarely enforces or looks at traffic control unless there's a huge glaring issue or something occurs.
It's been an oversight for quite a bit but they are continually understaffed and residential/industrial construction kill/injure many times more workers each year so their focus is rarely on roadwork.

Signages and pylons are 100% not adequate for a huge hazard such as an open pit after work hours. However, based on the shots from the media, the hole had an elevated concrete lip AND a steel guardrail around the top. This was enough protection, it would have been clearly visible driving up to it. These kids were driving fast or distracted.

Doesn't show the rest of their traffic control so I can't speak to if the access was correctly limited or not. But speaking from experience, something should have been parked or physically in the way to prevent access to this location after hours. No local traffic needs to go around or through this area. Fencing, equipment or even a bigger group of barrels at each end, simple and done.

source: H&S for York Region.
add: shoot me a PM if you see any bad traffic control in York Region.
 
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killvino said:
MOL very rarely enforces or looks at traffic control unless there's a huge glaring issue or something occurs.
It's been an oversight for quite a bit but they are continually understaffed and residential/industrial construction kill/injure many times more workers each year so their focus is rarely on roadwork.

Signages and pylons are 100% not adequate for a huge hazard such as an open pit after work hours. However, based on the shots from the media, the hole had an elevated concrete lip AND a steel guardrail around the top. This was enough protection, it would have been clearly visible driving up to it. These kids were driving fast or distracted.

Doesn't show the rest of their traffic control so I can't speak to if the access was correctly limited or not. But speaking from experience, something should have been parked or physically in the way to prevent access to this location after hours. No local traffic needs to go around or through this area. Fencing, equipment or even a bigger group of barrels at each end, simple and done.

source: H&S for York Region.
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Closure at time of crash looked similar to this IIRC. That was at the entrance many hundreds of meters from hole. No idea what was near hole.

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GreyGhost said:
That's kind of the point. The sole purpose of the name change was to distance themselves from their own stink.
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lol when they switched the emails over from @SNC to @Atkins, they guy who I sit beside started reporting all the emails he received from the new email addresses as spam because he had no idea the name change was happening. Took about 2hrs for me to catch on and let him know what was going on
 
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