Audiobooks took the edge off my impatience in traffic
Should I just stop riding?...
- Thread starter MSFT
- Start date
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?
As someone who likes to shred downtown/midtown on an fz09 and now a 125!!! I would save the aggressiveness for a romp, the amount of stupid present at commuting times is no bueno.
Ugh. Worst book ever.
Underdog
Well-known member
The best training you'll get from anyone with a brain here is ride in the dirt - you'll lose count of the number of falls you have, but your control and abilities will improve faster than you could imagine.
Can't tell for sure if you can't read, can't comprehend or have a rape thing going on .... either way, I bet you're killer fun at parties. I promise you, as God is my witness, you can wear any dress you want and you aren't asking to be sexually assaulted.
Regarding riding, you're on the right track - maybe half right. You can't control what people do entirely - you can prepare for it. This one's a freebie for you - we have ALL heard now that at Kingston and Lawrence, it might be tight for being aware, so we should be extra cautious there.
There is ALWAYS something you can do - the trouble is knowing when it should be done. Sometimes we see it after - but learn from it.
Semantics yes, but at the time, there were 2 classes (maybe 3) of 600s. The Thundercat, the ZZR600, the Kanatuna and the F4 were in a different class that the Ninja ZX6-R, the GSX-R and the R-6. ALL of these are fast, all are close in speed, all are dangerous in the wrong hands, seems like a separate thread. Some are easier to ride than others - the R-6 is a TERRIBLE beginner bike - it's a great track bike.
Looking at the bikes I started on, the best bike may have been the GS400, but I chose a GS550 - closest thing I could get to a cool bike at the time, and it was an inline 4, DOHC 16 valve rocket weighing 450lbs .... yikes....
My original point was only that the F4 (or F3) are well put together machines that can be a beginner bike. Most would agree otherwise, but sometimes it works - depends on the head on the shoulders doing the riding. My point was only that it could be done and has been. 600s make **** all power below 6000rpm, and that's an easy place to stay in. Someone wants to go fast, they'll find a way.
Now you tell me, I raced a F4 for a couple of years , no wonder I was so slow
See? You shoulda asked me what bikes are the fastest on the track .... No, that wasn't my point - it was about ride-ability. They are so easy to ride - felt like the prefect fit first time I rode one. Actually, you racing it proves how versatile that bike is.
I never felt as comfortable on the Katana 600 as I did on the F3, but the ThunderCat and the F3 were very similar yes - unlike the R6 or GSX-R.
Trials
Well-known member
True! but make sure you do it on a dirt bike, dirt bikes are inherently light, inherently narrow and fitted with bars and controls that provide good leverage and a standard riding position. They are not fitted with massive dual disc front brakes that are designed to bring 4 or 5 hundred pounds of speeding motorcycle to a fast stop. Traverse inline 4's all have the same characteristics; they are very wide and very heavy. Add to that some serious performance and now you have a heavy powerful bike that requires some serious big brakes, add low narrow sporbike bars and rear set pegs on it .... none of these things relate well to a learner motorcycle.
I had a Honda 350cc 4-cylinder back in the day, traverse inline 4's don't come any smaller or lighter then that one. :| I called it Sparky because it was so easy to drag hard parts in tight corners (not a good learner motorcycle feature and overall that was not a good learner bike).
I think you're confusing semantics with facts, you can't compare it against something that doesn't exist (at the time). Remember, you gave the example
Anywho, no one is arguing "can it be done?" sure, you can even put a newbie on a VMAX, R1, MT10 and they may come out of it just fine. For me, my concern isn't with the day to day ride and the constant urge to resist twisting the throttle open, it's about reacting to situations on something that is far more unforgiving then lower displacement bikes. Think i already said it, but i think there is some merit in making mistakes (everyone does) early in your career on something that won't 'bite you'.
Personally i don't really care what anyone starts on, it's their business. But if asked that's what i would focus my time on getting across to them.
Trials
Well-known member
But they will never become a skilled rider.
I think you're confusing semantics with facts, you can't compare it against something that doesn't exist (at the time). Remember, you gave the example
Anywho, no one is arguing "can it be done?" sure, you can even put a newbie on a VMAX, R1, MT10 and they may come out of it just fine. For me, my concern isn't with the day to day ride and the constant urge to resist twisting the throttle open, it's about reacting to situations on something that is far more unforgiving then lower displacement bikes. Think i already said it, but i think there is some merit in making mistakes (everyone does) early in your career on something that won't 'bite you'.
Personally i don't really care what anyone starts on, it's their business. But if asked that's what i would focus my time on getting across to them.
Granted, I misspoke when I compared the 1999 F4 to a bike that doesn't exist. To be honest, I missed the year of the F4 in question - fact is, there were 3 other hard core sport bikes that year from Japan - shouldn't be spending time debating this - I know of 2 riders whose first bikes were an F3 and a Katana 600 - they literally had no issues. I think it is a good bike for the right person. A GS400 or KZ400 or XR200 would be for other people. VMAX? R1? MT10 .... don't know anyone ever who suggested those as first rides, so as someone who personally DOES care what people start on (because it affects us - insurance, cager attitude, other riders thinking sport bikes are dangerous, INSURANCE costs), it's worth discussing.
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okay, I'll bite - how would you determine "they may come out of it just fine"?
too easy - by not being pulled off a guard rail
also i don't really understand why you asked? lol.
Sure, it's your right and i in no way implied or meant to imply otherwise!
Trials
Well-known member
You know any highly skilled riders who started out on a big powerful street motorcycle and have never rode anything else?
... I never seen one.
Would likely depend on if our opinions of skilled differs. I noticed you didn't bother to answer btw
For example; I could offer up many stories of riders who started on SS's years ago and drag knee all day at lawrence and bayview ramps, but if you don't consider that high skill then it's going to be a short discussion.
Likewise, maybe you could talk about romping through the forest/dirt tracks and i'd say "well that's cute, good for them but i'm not impressed."
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