Shell gas no longer Ethanol Free

[slowbird]

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To those that know, Shell V-Power is usually labeled as having 0% Ethanol in it. Great for those of us with older bikes, Carburetors, or who just want to stay away from Ethanol.

I read on a group chat that apparently Shell will be adding Ethanol to all of their "blends".

Here is a reply to an enquiry:

Enquiry: Ethanol content in V-Power gasoline
Response:
Good morning, Starting in 2022, all gasoline grades sold in Canada will be blended with ethanol, including premium gasoline (V-Power 91 and 93) according to proposed regulations (10% ethanol Federal Clean Fuel Regulation for 2022, Low Carbon Fuel Requirements and need to reduce the carbon intensity of fossil fuels, which ethanol is one mechanism to reduce carbon intensity).
All the provinces are switching slowly, and If you see the label at the pump, “Gasoline may contain up to 10% Ethanol” is already happening.

Regards, Sylvie Martin Shell Canada,
Technical Support Email: shelltechnical-ca@shell.com

I gotta say this is pretty disappointing. Super Lame.

 

[bitzz]

I don't get the fear of ethanol fuels.
I only have old cars and bikes with carbs, at least half of the bikes are two strokes
NEVER, not ONCE, have I had a problem I could even remotely blame on ethanol.

Tell me what your problem with ethanol is and I'll show you where you're wrong.

 

[bitzz]

... there are lots and lots of problems with ethanol fuels... but all those problems are in the making of the fuel, not the finished product you put in the tank.
Making fuel out of FOOD is plain STUPID

 

[GreyGhost]

I don't get the fear of ethanol fuels.
I only have old cars and bikes with carbs, at least half of the bikes are two strokes
NEVER, not ONCE, have I had a problem I could even remotely blame on ethanol.

Tell me what your problem with ethanol is and I'll show you where you're wrong.

I've had major problems in sleds with ethanol. Fills the float bowls with white flaky crud and plugs the carb. Taking carbs apart at the side of the trail in minus a lot weather is no fun. Ethanol-free, no white flakey crap.

EDIT:
There is a reasonable argument that the flakes were ice but tomato/tomatoe. I wouldn't have had nearly as much stratified water with ethanol free fuel.

 

[Lightcycle]

Ethanol is hydrophilic, which means it holds water.

Over time, that water degrades fuel quality and tends to gum up the fuel. However, this process takes months, so if you're regularly using your vehicle and filling it up, you won't notice this at all.

The problem occurs when you store a seasonal or recreational vehicle over the winter and don't stabilize the gas, then over time, the ethanol will begin to absorb the water in your tank. Which is why it's also recommended to fill up your tank all the way over the wintertime, so there's less chance of condensation forming on the tank walls.

 

[AFJ]

.

 

[GreyGhost]

And since the bike has manual ignition advance/retard control, I have noted that unleaded fuel requires less ignition advance timing and needs less spark plug maintenance.
AFJ

So cool. At some point I need to own a vehicle where everything is the responsibility of the driver.

 

[Lightcycle]

So cool. At some point I need to own a vehicle where everything is the responsibility of the driver.

Totally agree! Radar guided cruise control with lane detection and collision avoidance, automatic transmission, blah blah blah. These newer motorcycles practically ride themselves these days. Unless you've got health problems or are physically incapacitated, I just don't understand why anyone would want to be a passenger on their own motorcycle. It takes away the visceral excitement of having control of as many aspects of the vehicle as possible.

I saw an old Zundapp motorcycle in a museum once, it had rollable tubes on both grips, the right tube was the throttle per usual, but the left tube controlled ignition timing and you could adjust it while you were riding.

That's cool.

 

[AFJ]

So cool. At some point I need to own a vehicle where everything is the responsibility of the driver.

.

 

[GreyGhost]

Totally agree! Radar guided cruise control with lane detection and collision avoidance, automatic transmission, blah blah blah. These newer motorcycles practically ride themselves these days. Unless you've got health problems or are physically incapacitated, I just don't understand why anyone would want to be a passenger on their own motorcycle. It takes away the visceral excitement of having control of as many aspects of the vehicle as possible.

I saw an old Zundapp motorcycle in a museum once, it had rollable tubes on both grips, the right tube was the throttle per usual, but the left tube controlled ignition timing and you could adjust it while you were riding.

That's cool.

Here's the Model T control chart. Weird three position foot shifter and this much going on in the steering wheel and you don't need to worry about drivers playing with their phones.

 

[bitzz]

Ethanol is hydrophilic, which means it holds water

Pure gasoline is hydrophilic. Water in fuel is not exclusive to ethanol mixed fuel. Ask your grandpa about gas line anti freeze.

... and hydrophilic means it ABSORBS water... till it saturates, then settles to the bottom of the tank (again, pure gasoline does the same thing)
The problem arises when the liquid, that is a mix of gas, ethanol, water and all the crap that comes in that water that is absorbed from the atmosphere, evaporates. It's all that crap that came with the water that is that white chalky stuff.
The reason you fill the tank to the brim is to minimize the surface area that is in contact with air. If the tank is full the ratio of surface area to volume is the lowest, ergo it will absorb less water.
Stabil and the like, contain an soap or wax like ingredient that sits on the surface of the fuel, blocking contact to the atmosphere.

 

[slowbird]

I don't get the fear of ethanol fuels.

Just look it up. If it doesn't bother you, then keep using it. This thread is for those who would rather not put Ethanol in their vehicles.

First 3 of my bikes were Carb'd. When I had to do Carb work they definitely looked better after I started avoiding Ethanol.

If I have a choice of putting E10 in my vehicle or a fuel with no ethanol why would I choose the fuel that studies show isn't great for carburetor seals or jets, or is know to absorb water, or is known to burn faster and give you less fuel economy?

There is plenty of Anecdotal and Scientific evidence showing the negative effects of E10 Fuels. Will your bike explode when you use it? Of course not. But after all of the studies why risk it if you can easily choose?

Pure gasoline is hydrophilic. Water in fuel is not exclusive to ethanol mixed fuel. Ask your grandpa about gas line anti freeze.

Ethanol is Hydrophilic. Gasoline is hydrophobic.

Tell me what your problem with ethanol is and I'll show you where you're wrong.

lol. yeah I'll wait.

 

[Lightcycle]

Pure gasoline is hydrophilic.

Hydrophobic. Not Hydrophilic. Those terms are actually opposites.

 

[bitzz]

Having a control for the timing was pretty standard on anything that had a throttle, till we got automatic centrifugal advance

 

[bitzz]

One has to wonder why, at every step of petroleum production, from the time the crude comes out of the ground (a lot of the time being floated out of the ground on pressurized water) till it's in the big tank at the gas station, the stuff is tested for water content. The main reason gas stations are now required to have plastic inground tanks is to minimize water seepage from the surrounding dirt...remember OSMOSIS from grade 9? Gas stations are required by law to test for water in their tanks on a regular basis... and have been since as far back as the '70s (that I know of. I used to run a gas station in the mid '70s and had to do dips and you painted the end of the dip stick with stuff that would react to water to check. The new tanks have water sensors, but you still have to test the sensors... by painting stuff on the end of the dip stick when you do dips. I'm pretty sure the delivery driver does it now)
"PURE" gasoline is not PURE anything, it is both a a mixture and a solution. Not all gasoline components are petroleum based ... some parts, the petroleum parts, are hydrophobic, and some parts are hydrophilic. Gasoline from 1975, that had ZERO ethanol content absorbed water.
The "problems" with ethanol mixed fuels are not new, nor exclusive to ethanol mixed fuels. It could be argued that adding ethanol made these "problems" worse, or faster to realize but ethanol mixed fuels didn't invent these "problems".

 

[AFJ]

I saw an old Zundapp motorcycle in a museum once, it had rollable tubes on both grips, the right tube was the throttle per usual, but the left tube controlled ignition timing and you could adjust it while you were riding.

That's cool.

.

 

[ReSTored]

I made a point of buying premium non-ethanol gas for the last couple of fill ups before storing my ST1100 for 4 - 5 months + I always used Stabil. The ST had 4 carbs and the thought of having to strip them down to clean them was daunting. Cheap insurance IMO. My newer Tracer GT use premium anyway + I still add Stabil last fill up of the season.

I also only use premium + Stabil for all small engines all season long.

So, now that Shell had ethanol in their premium, who doesn't? Ultramar?

 

[slowbird]

I made a point of buying premium non-ethanol gas for the last couple of fill ups before storing my ST1100 for 4 - 5 months + I always used Stabil. The ST had 4 carbs and the thought of having to strip them down to clean them was daunting. Cheap insurance IMO. My newer Tracer GT use premium anyway + I still add Stabil last fill up of the season.

Same. The VFR had 4 carbs and getting that plenum back on was always a huge pain. Then having to sync them was tedious. Shell stations are everywhere so it was easy enough to find the fuel without Ethanol for, as you say, cheap insurance.

So, now that Shell had ethanol in their premium, who doesn't? Ultramar?

Not sure. I have seen some Canadian Tire gas stations with the 0% ethanol sticker. Dunnoh how long that'll last.

 

[800over]

I don't get the fear of ethanol fuels.
I only have old cars and bikes with carbs, at least half of the bikes are two strokes
NEVER, not ONCE, have I had a problem I could even remotely blame on ethanol.

Tell me what your problem with ethanol is and I'll show you where you're wrong.

It makes less power. It is heavily subsidized like the rest of gas. Your fuel economy is worse.

 

[Brian P]

So, now that Shell had ethanol in their premium, who doesn't? Ultramar?

If this is due to the federal Clean Fuel Regulation, all brands will contain ethanol. Probably all of the brands that previously did not contain ethanol in their premium fuel, were coming from the same refinery anyhow, and that refinery will now have switched.

My standard winter storage practice has been to run the fuel level as low as I dare, and then for carbureted engines, switch off the fuel with the engine running and run it until it stalls. They're stored indoors where the temperature doesn't fluctuate much and they don't get rained or snowed on. Fuel that isn't there, can't go bad.

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