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Semi retired lifestyles
- Thread starter bigpoppa
- Start date
We have been lucky to be able to spend 3-12 months at a time in various places around the world, trying our hand at living the ex-pat lifestyle.
Success at integration is very much a factor of having the attitude and aptitude to learn the language and accept the social customs of your new home. You either do this, or you spend all your time huddled in an ex-pat enclave feeling the entire weight of a foreign culture pushing in on all sides of your bubble - through the TV, the labels on the products at the store, the impatience of every person you deal with outside your enclave.
You don't have to travel far to see this in action. Just look at all the Chinese, Greek, Italian, Indian, etc. enclaves all over Toronto where these ex-pats/immigrants never learn English and never leave their community. Do you want to live like that in your new country of residence?
Suffice to say, adaption is primarily a matter of age. Once you reach a certain age, you are either unwilling or unable to change. Immigrants move to a new country for their kids. We spent over 3 months in Botswana and fell in with a bunch of ex-pats who accepted us in their circle. They spent every weekend together, the same 20-25 people - white South Africans, British, Australians, Canadians, Germans, Swiss - clinging to each other out of a familiarity with a common language and custom.
Meanwhile all their kids were hanging out with their Motswana friends from work and school, moving in and out of English and Setswana with the ease of a local.
We saw this same thing play out in almost every single country we visited. Although it was a easy and comfortable slotting in with the ex-pat communities, when we had hosts who had integrated into their country, it was a such a feeling of freedom and to an extend, relief. We stayed with a British ex-pat in Mexico City. He had lived there for over 40 years, had a Mexican wife, all his friends were Mexican. He took us around to all the local places, had favorite Mexican TV shows and music, introduced us to all the local customs, spoke fluently and with ease with everyone around him. The entire country was his to live in and explore. He wasn't confined to an ex-pat cage.
Comments on here about "banana republic", "malaria", blah blah are neither here nor there. If your mindset is rigid, you're not going to be able to live in highly-industrialized nations like Japan or Spain either.
Success at integration is very much a factor of having the attitude and aptitude to learn the language and accept the social customs of your new home. You either do this, or you spend all your time huddled in an ex-pat enclave feeling the entire weight of a foreign culture pushing in on all sides of your bubble - through the TV, the labels on the products at the store, the impatience of every person you deal with outside your enclave.
You don't have to travel far to see this in action. Just look at all the Chinese, Greek, Italian, Indian, etc. enclaves all over Toronto where these ex-pats/immigrants never learn English and never leave their community. Do you want to live like that in your new country of residence?
Suffice to say, adaption is primarily a matter of age. Once you reach a certain age, you are either unwilling or unable to change. Immigrants move to a new country for their kids. We spent over 3 months in Botswana and fell in with a bunch of ex-pats who accepted us in their circle. They spent every weekend together, the same 20-25 people - white South Africans, British, Australians, Canadians, Germans, Swiss - clinging to each other out of a familiarity with a common language and custom.
Meanwhile all their kids were hanging out with their Motswana friends from work and school, moving in and out of English and Setswana with the ease of a local.
We saw this same thing play out in almost every single country we visited. Although it was a easy and comfortable slotting in with the ex-pat communities, when we had hosts who had integrated into their country, it was a such a feeling of freedom and to an extend, relief. We stayed with a British ex-pat in Mexico City. He had lived there for over 40 years, had a Mexican wife, all his friends were Mexican. He took us around to all the local places, had favorite Mexican TV shows and music, introduced us to all the local customs, spoke fluently and with ease with everyone around him. The entire country was his to live in and explore. He wasn't confined to an ex-pat cage.
Comments on here about "banana republic", "malaria", blah blah are neither here nor there. If your mindset is rigid, you're not going to be able to live in highly-industrialized nations like Japan or Spain either.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
karens will always find something to complain about, you get one chance at life, wont be getting another
J_F
Guest
you can take up residency and live full time in another country and still collect both of those
if you want to maintain Canadian heath care availability though
that's where you have be careful with duration out of country
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On the subject of health care, if you find yourself needing care in a metropolitan city, I imagine you're probably going to be fine in most places around the world if you find your way to the gringo hospital.
My experience is thankfully limited, but I broke my leg in Vietnam and experienced both sides of their health system. Health care was split from semi-horrifying out in the sticks, to the nicest hospital I have ever experienced in Saigon. The fancy Saigon hospital was also very reasonably priced by North American standards.
My experience is thankfully limited, but I broke my leg in Vietnam and experienced both sides of their health system. Health care was split from semi-horrifying out in the sticks, to the nicest hospital I have ever experienced in Saigon. The fancy Saigon hospital was also very reasonably priced by North American standards.
I just ran across this quote the other day. It's my current favorite:
bigpoppa
Well-known member
much better than my slogan "I like latin women"
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J_F
Guest
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Mindset rigid, no. I worked in telecom for decades, my work took me into plenty of developing countries for extended periods of time. I never found it hard to integrate -- eat in local restaurants, get your hair cut at the local barber, buy your clothes at the local shops, and kick the ball around with locals on the weekends. If you buy into the bi-directionality of 'mi casa es su casa', you'll find people are basically good, friendly and hospitable everywhere.
It's understandable that people like to associate with their ex-pat countrymen as well. It's common for Canadians, British and Australians to clique up when they live in the USA.
My point is simply my preference. I've experienced both, the $2500/mo extra it cost to winter comfortably in the Southern US is just more my cup of beer.
I think that's great that you've done a lot of business travel. You're certainly not alone in that. I've lived out of a suitcase for decades while I was working.
Where the mindset changes is when you don't have a return ticket in your back pocket. That's when you switch from being a traveler/tourist to being an immigrant.
Then the question becomes: do you choose to live in a gated community with people who think, act and talk the same as you? Or do you integrate into the community and the larger country altogether, adopting their language and customs as your own.
There's certainly a double-standard at work when we criticize immigrants who come to Canada and don't bother to learn the language and only live in their enclosed community. Yet it's entirely okay to move to a different country and choose to live in that same kind of gated community surrounded by others of your own kind.
It's the exact same thing in my mind.
J_F
Guest
good points, I've done both:
worked abroad for pay
and lived abroad because I wanted to
working abroad, the risks are for the most eliminated as the Co doesn't want sick expats
there is close to zero integration in this situation, food, water, everything is brought in from safe sources
no pressure to understand local customs and language...the locals need to adapt to us if they want a job
as for these things:
dengue, malaria, crime, being surrounded with poverty, intermittent services, jungle bugs, chancy health care etc.
it's possible to gain some understanding of the risks before you choose to go
like "at the top of a mountain" very little of those apply, even in the tropics
insects don't like altitude, cold-flowing water is nice stuff....I could go on
but if someone doesn't want to do any risk management
yeah, they need a tall fence and secure gate
to each their own
worked abroad for pay
and lived abroad because I wanted to
working abroad, the risks are for the most eliminated as the Co doesn't want sick expats
there is close to zero integration in this situation, food, water, everything is brought in from safe sources
no pressure to understand local customs and language...the locals need to adapt to us if they want a job
as for these things:
dengue, malaria, crime, being surrounded with poverty, intermittent services, jungle bugs, chancy health care etc.
it's possible to gain some understanding of the risks before you choose to go
like "at the top of a mountain" very little of those apply, even in the tropics
insects don't like altitude, cold-flowing water is nice stuff....I could go on
but if someone doesn't want to do any risk management
yeah, they need a tall fence and secure gate
to each their own
Roadghost
Well-known member
Here I was thinking of going down there with my imperialist British Empire attitude, ordering them to "Speak english you filthy dog!" And telling them I was there to civilise them and they should be grateful. Touch of the lash to set things right. Well, thanks for spoiling my fantasy.
The best asset you have IS the Canadian passport. Which basically guarantees that you get to live in almost any country you want for at least 3-6 months. So, there's no right or wrong place...sometimes I want to live in some cabin overlooking the Rockies with my dirtbike. Other time I want to chill by some village with rice paddies and brown skin women. Yet other times, it's a bustling city that feels like New year's eve/Mardi Gras & your fkn birthday just on a regular Tuesday.
So, why restrict yourself? Make the money and live the dream!
So, why restrict yourself? Make the money and live the dream!
We were in a bar in Amsterdam and this guy charges in and yells at the bartender, "Do you take American dollars?"
Bartender shakes his head.
"Well you should!" And the American guy storms out again.
We were at a restaurant in France and a guy (I think he was Canadian) had a f-n conniption fit because there weren't hamburgers on the menu.
"What kind of f-n place doesn't serve f-n hamburgers?!?"
Storms out of the restaurant.
You joke.
But it happens.
J_F
Guest
maybe a bit more
was in Tanzania in '05 with a group of mates
we went down into Ngorongoro crater
google it
it is a real-life Jurassic Park
got down into the crater and started to look around
unreal volume of stuff eating other stuff
the hyena's viciousness was only outdone
by the Germans assault on the pick-nick basket
ham sandwiches didn't stand a chance!
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