Selling powerful bikes to noobs...

[hulahoopie]

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I dont think that's a good argument.
Should a doctor give painkillers to a drug addict just because some other doctor might if he does not?
responsibility of the profession.

You've been trying to sell that bike for a while. Take the guy's money... if you don't, someone else will.

 

[hulahoopie]

There is no real duty of care tho in both cases, because they know the potential consequences of inexperienced riders on powerful machines, there is certainly a duty of caution to try and convey that knowledge to the young buyer.

Why would there be a duty to try to convey the message if there is no duty of care at all? What happens when the salesman fails in delivering this message and he is certain the message of caution is not getting across?

Once again graduated licences for machines would resolve the ethical issue mostly.

-I agree, but unfortunately the licensing is not strict enough. I was able to buy a bike with only an M1.
Receiving M2 does not mean much either.
Maybe Canadian licensing regulations need to catch up with aus.

 

[Kri$han]

I dont think that's a good argument.
Should a doctor give painkillers to a drug addict just because some other doctor might if he does not?
responsibility of the profession.

Prescribed medicine from a doctor comes with a professional licensing liability...much like engineers who approve designs, and lawyers who are sworn to secrecy - that's their JOB, and if they screw up, they'll have their professional licenses revoked (and arguably, career's ended).

A motorcycle salesman bears no such professional liability, and is only refusing the sale based on his or her personal opinion (judgement) that the buying rider is not capable enough. What if the kid has his M1 and is 18, but has been riding MX since he was 8? 10 years of dirt riding and he's probably a LOT better than most people on this board.

The salesman has one job: selling bikes and making money. If someone too young or inexperienced makes the mistake of buying too much bike, then the onus is on THEM, as an adult. I'd probably equate it to poor parenting and/or a lack of proper guidance, self control and modesty - let Darwin sort 'em out.

 

[lil red bird]

Your bike your call.
I would not sell it but that's me

 

[Venom01]

Your bike your call.
I would not sell it but that's me

This. Its up to you the seller. No laws in place, no harm no fowl on your part. I myself would not feel comfortable selling a powerful machine to a noob but that's just me.

This is my signature

 

[Brit Biker]

I also agree with the graduated licence system..I grew up with it in the UK. I had a feeling my son would want to ride also after spending a lot of time on my bike so I started him off at an early age.
50cc dirt bike. 80cc dirt bike. 125cc Bike. thern up to a 550cc. He now rides a 650. and will enjoy that for a few more years.

maybe not how you think tho....seller has a responsibility to his own well being and particularly in his profession knows the consequences.
As the triple 750 story shows ( I rode one only once and it was flat out scary ) these decisions can haunt one.

So the responsibility is to one's self and one's set of values ( in the case of a mcycle salesman )
There is no real duty of care tho in both cases, because they know the potential consequences of inexperienced riders on powerful machines, there is certainly a duty of caution to try and convey that knowledge to the young buyer.

Once again graduated licences for machines would resolve the ethical issue mostly.
Here in Aus it takes a while to get an "open" licence. One of the most experienced riders I l know who thinks nothing about setting off on a 3,000 km off pavement and off road trek won't and cannot legally ride my ST1100.

Given the tight speed limits here ...not sure anyone needs much above a 650 anything anyway.

 

[OMGSelenaGomez]

I dont think that's a good argument.
Should a doctor give painkillers to a drug addict just because some other doctor might if he does not?
responsibility of the profession.

Doctors are regulated by an overseeing body similar to the way nurses are regulated. If they screw up, they have sanctions placed on them and have to prove themselves as competent in order to continue practicing.

A private seller selling a vehicle has no professional or legal obligations when it comes to selling a vehicle in terms of how the seller feels the buyer will handle the vehicle.

Money is money. You can sell it to the noob for a good price or you can sell it to a seasoned rider who is going to be a lot more conservative with their money. Do you want to be out of a few grand because you think you're sitting on some kind of high horse? Don't kid yourself.

 

[the bandit]

My father had a kawi tripple 750. Notorious bike for instant colonics. Sold it to a friend of a friend of his getting into biking. A week later he heard the guylaunch himself hard into a telephone pole. My dad says he still thinks about how much he regrets selling that bike to someone so inexperienced.

This is my signature

This incident you mentioned..I was riding with him at the time if it is the same incident.It was in the early eighties and it happened at dundas and dufferin In TO, we were going south on Dufferin when popo tried to pull him over but of course he had no insurance so he bolted got to dufferin and dundas and a streetcar was unloading passengers so he went around the left side another streetcar going north he makes it past that and creams a car turning left bounces off the windshield and hits the pole his boots ended up 150 feet down Dufferin.I will never forget it!! when he hit the ground two three shakes and that was it.When the police went to remove his helmet lets just say it wasn't pretty.

Sorry to go into detail about it but maybe I'm doing "the run from police type" a favor by posting this.Just curious ask your dad if this is the same incident

How about if he is a noob but lies and says he has got 10 years experience.Like most stated inform the potential buyer and you have done your part

 

[gwelfmike]

First, I would rather sell the guy the bike than a supercar, if he does something stupid ( I am not saying he will) on the bike, he will kill himself, if he does something stupid in a supercar, then he could potentially kill someone else.

If he is asking a bunch of questions, that is a good sign that he is responsible, not just " give me the keys because I know what I am doing."

Also, what would you do if some guy was 45 and 0 experience, would you tell him no?

 

[King Cobra]

Any mature caring person that knows the dangers of a powerful machine and an inexperience young man that will have a very high probability of hurting someone could not sleep if they sold the bike. I flipped my zx10 in January this year, I put it on kajiji and with in 2 hours had it sold but I turned down the first two guys that called me. Never ridden and were under 20, I applaud the people that care and for the rest of you, wait until you kid comes home with a 1000cc bike that one of the other guys just sold him....see if your ready to state the same.

Yes, I said young man, I have my doughts a young women would even think like this, they are just wired differently...think it is the testosterone pushen the buttons here. These days agressive driving will kill you sooner more than later, defensive driving is all we have...be safe my two wheeled friends! My opinion....Oh and one more thing, rain has cleaned the raods, 17 c on Monday....it's here!!!!!!

 

[Invincible]

who sold this noob a supercar and a powerful bike.

 

[Two50noob]

I think you only have a responsibility to your self when it comes to selling a bike. It's not an illegal item and as far as I know there is legal age requirements for ownership (Licensing aside). So what I mean by having a responsibility to your self is to do what your own morals tell you. I applaud the people willing to limit who they sell a bike to based on their experience level it makes the roads slightly safer even if for only a short time. But selling an item to those that bring you the money without regards to their use is not immoral as you cannot contole or know what will be done with the sale.

 

[Alvito]

There are laws in Europe to prevent noobs from riding powerful bikes. My first bike was a Ninja 650R, I still have it and can't wait to ride it. But I remember the first night I took it out. It was day and night compared to the Suzuki Marauder I used in my course.

Should have kept looking for a Green 2008 ninja 250... =(

 

[Bugs]

nothing stops a grown man from buying it, riding all his life and letting his 16 yr old noob drive it. Express your concerns and let him make his own choice

 

[ZX600]

Your bike your call.
I would not sell it but that's me

Welcome back! you been hiding under a rock? any rides this summer?

 

[opusmax]

If it's the absolute first bike, the tamer the better. There is so much for a new rider's brain to be learning without having to deal with excess torque and power. A noobie will almost certainly make mistakes...that's part of learning...needs a bike where such errors are less likely to be deadly. Too many selling a dangerous proposition just for the money could invite litigation and/or invite gov't legislation.Or you could just think about the guy's family when they get the news...do unto others yadayadayada, right?..Cliches survive the ages for a reason...there is some truth to them.

 

[user751140]

Really depends on how mature the kid is, I mean I learned to ride my first motorcycle at the RTI school over the weekends. I was always afraid and hung onto a CBR 125 the whole time...When it was time for the final test the inevitable happened! I was the first to do the run and guess what everyone took like little 125s..The only thing left waiting for me what the BIG MEAN looking Buell 250 V twin... I pretty much crapped myself when I sat on it and knew that failure was right around the corner. But when I rolled off.. I was like HOLY ****!! What an awesome bike!! I passed the test with flying colours!!

As my first bike I bought the 07 gixxer 600 because it felt identical to the buell in terms of height and the comfort of sitting on it and I knew i would never like a 125 or 250 after getting on that buell (It seems better then all other 250's) or will end up looking for a bigger bike very soon. Now I don't want to encourage all the new guys to hop on 600's and end up in a ditch somewhere but at the end of the day it's up to the rider, how mature they're and you always have to have a HUGE respect for the machine you're on...

 

[Face]

Not sure who sold him the Duc or the Tesla, but his father got him an MV Augusta F3 for his 19th birthday. Either he doesn't worry about giving a powerful SS to his noob son, or he has a really nice insurance policy out on him!

who sold this noob a supercar and a powerful bike.

 

[dricked]

How do you know he's a "noob"? At 19 I had 11 years in the dirt and 3 on the street. Growing up in Stratford he probably rode growing up.

 

[crankcall]

yeah, he probably rode a pogo stick in a seedy motel room......

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