Selling a bike advise

Heylerds

Heylerds

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I have a 125 bike for sale, registered to me but I did not renew insurance this year. Somebody wants to buy it and was honest about the purpose, to part it and send the parts overseas. So no ownership transfer to the buyer.

Any issue(s)? How do I cover/protect myself? Or run away?
 
Why not transfer ownership? Sell it to him for $500 (on paper). Tax owed is only $65. Then you don't care what the new owner does with the bike, you are clean.
 
When you sell a vehicle it's up to the buyer to register the new ownership. So if someone doesn't it's on them...mostly. IIRC, If you have the buyer sign off on the purchase with a bill of sale, you can take that to the MTO to show you no longer own it and have you name removed from ownership. Or sell it as parts for $50 and have them transfer ownership, which you won't know they did or didn't unless the MTO sends you a letter to confirm sale price. For my own peace of mind, I'd have them sign off a bill of sale with ID like a driver's lic.
 
Heylerds said:
I have a 125 bike for sale, registered to me but I did not renew insurance this year. Somebody wants to buy it and was honest about the purpose, to part it and send the parts overseas. So no ownership transfer to the buyer.

Any issue(s)? How do I cover/protect myself? Or run away?
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You're going to sign the ownership and hand it over to him. At that point it's out of your hands. If he parts it out and never registers it that's his business.

To CYA against any eventuality, I'd get photocopies or good quality photographs of the ownership, the signature, the bill of sale including his signature, contact information and some sort of buyer ID (say, his driver's license or other photo ID.)

Because it's currently owned and legit I can't imagine any eventuality where this would come back to you but you never know.

Or you could hold on to it and sell it to a noob this spring.
 
Blackfin said:
You're going to sign the ownership and hand it over to him. At that point it's out of your hands. If he parts it out and never registers it that's his business..
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You should go to service ontario and have your name removed from it. I don't know how long you have to wait to do it. Especially for this transaction I would at least do that.
 
This has the potential to be an issue if somebody gets hurt with the bike while you are still the registered owner. Copies of signed and dated documents may eventually clear you, but it could still be a hassle just being associated with the bike after it's no longer in your care and control.
 
There is a process in which you can notify the MTO that you're no longer the registered owner of a vehicle. This process is particularly useful in this exact scenario where there is significant doubt that the new owner is actually going to complete an ownership transfer.

Bring your paperwork to a Service Ontario location and do so, then you're good to go and what the new owner chooses to do (or not do) is no longer your concern.
 
Robp said:
You should go to service ontario and have your name removed from it. I don't know how long you have to wait to do it. Especially for this transaction I would at least do that.
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correct
follow this advice
you have to wait 6 days then you go and provide them the name of owner and date sold
MTO will give you a simple form for you to provide the above info.

Get it out of your name, never know.
 
Two copies of the bill of sale. One for you, one for the buyer. You both sign both copies.
Take your copy to Service Ontario along with the plate and have your name removed and the plate listed as returned to MTO.
Ensure the VIN is listed on the bill of sale along with the make, model, engine size and colour of the bike.
You want to return the plate because if the buyer wants to ride it, he may use your old plate number if stopped by the cops.
When they run the plate and it comes back returned, they will know he's lying and you won't get his tickets in the mail.
 
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statsman said:
You want to return the plate because if the buyer wants to ride it, he may use your old plate number if stopped by the cops.
When they run the plate and it comes back returned, they will know he's lying and you won't get his tickets in the mail.
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x2 Riceburner - you keep the plate. You can return it to the MTO if you want, or you can hang it in your garage like I do. Since you keep the plate portion of the ownership as well you can re-use the plate down the road as well, so the next bike you buy you put the same plate on it - the MTO will just change the attachment to your new ride.
 
Best to get the ownership changed over. I've had a tow/storage yard come back after me over a vehicle that I sold with a destroyed engine. I was probably lucky that the 407 couldn't connect me to it. Buyer went and dropped a new engine into it and drove it for months before abandoning it on the side of the road somewhere.
 
Baggsy said:
Best to get the ownership changed over.
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Unfortunately, that's the problem - you can't force the new owner to actually do that. The law says they're supposed to do it within 6 days, but there's nothing preventing people from just not bothering. Lots of stories out there of people that sold vehicles and found out years later that they're still registered in their name.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

i went to Service Ontario yesterday and inquired about the process but the person I spoke to said that I can't go there after the sale and ask them to take my name out as the registered owner. But I was not convinced, since I've read all your replies, so I emailed their support and here is the reply: (see in bold)

Hello

Thank you for taking the time to contact the Ministry of Transportation's Customer & Traveller Information Management Office.

You will need to provide the owner with the original documents:

Record your name, signature, name of buyer, date and purchase price on the "Bill of Sale".
Complete and sign the Application for Transfer. The Application for Transfer is on the back of the "vehicle portion" of the registration permit.

Keep your licence plates and the "plate portion" of the vehicle registration permit. You will need the permit if you decide to register your licence plates on another vehicle.
I would suggest that you notify the ministry that the vehicle has been sold by going to a ServiceOntario Centre.

Keep a photocopy of all the records you provided the buyer.

We thank you for your inquiry and encourage you to contact us in the future, as we continually strive to improve our service to our customers.


I have not decided on what I'm going to do at the moment but I definitely will not be going back to the same Service Ontario location.
 
Why am I not surprised that Service Ontario doesn't even know about the process.

Certas leaves a lot to be desired as a service provider. I'd be calling the MTO and letting them know about this, or speak to the manager at that SO outlet and ensure they school their employees. This is something that should be common knowledge to them, it's a major fraud prevention tool for the consumer - the fact that their employees are saying it's not possible is just wrong on many levels.

This sort of **** burns my ***.
 
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Even if the bike doesn't run a person could coast it down a hill and run over someone. A VIN search would bring up your name if the bike wasn't transferred. You're the last known owner and have to answer questions that wouldn't come up if you did it right. You might need a lawyer if the situation became dire enough. $$$$$$

BTW you would also need a UVIP.

Is this a Catch-22?

If you sign over the bike you are no longer the owner and therefore can't instruct the MOT on its demise. However if the bike has no new owner is the old owner still involved because someone has to own it?

The MOT isn't going to chase down the new owner and make him do anything.

What if the buyer's plans change and he re-sells the bike to someone who steals a plate and runs the bike with no insurance?

In answer to your question, you protect yourself by doing it right. If the other party doesn't want to do it right then walk away.

What's the bike worth? Do you own a house or intend to someday?

What if someone needed transportation but their driving record made insurance a five figure deal?

They buy a bike that they say will be used for parts so no transfer. They steal a plate and drive with their fingers crossed. In the event of a cop stop they run anywhere and dump the bike. The bike was cheaper than insurance.
 
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Plate is registered to you. Whether you keep it or return it, you shouldn't be giving it with the vehicle sold....for your own security. That's what I'm saying. Every plate I've ever had is in my possession or returned.
 
statsman said:
You MAY keep the plate. It's not mandatory.
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The plate remains in your name forever unless you return them to the MTO, and yes, you are supposed to retain them, NEVER give them away with a vehicle otherwise someone else can rack up all sorts of fines and such (ie, 407, parking tickets, etc) in your name, and they only way out (with much frustration, at that) is to try to claim they were stolen, which if you willingly gave them to someone with a used vehicle will be a tough case to win, so you're on the hook for potentially thousands of dollars.

That's why your ownership is perforated in the middle - buyer gets the vehicle portion, you retain the plate portion..and the plates. Letting them go down the road with some stranger while they remain in your name is crazy.
 
As already mentioned, you could return the plate to the Service Ontario office (unless you are really attached to it)!

If you get another bike in the future, pay to get a new plate!

Returning the plate gets you an official record that the bike is not yours anymore. The lady has to get in the system to complete the plate return, so there is a flag in the system with the reason why you returned the plate (vehicle sold). I do not remember if they give you a paper (I seem to remember they do, because if your sticker is valid, they will return some of the money, so they print a receipt for you).

Good luck.
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