Self-defence in Canada

[BusaBob]

@ mlc:

so a food critic can never comment on the quality of a meal unless they've been a chef? A movie viewer can never comment on the quality of a movie unless they've directed or produced one? The citizenry of a country can never be critical of a governement or rule unless they've actually governed?

 

[nobbie48]

This is essentially my point. Yes people pay fees, yes it sucks, no that doesn't mean we blow up the entire criminal law system for a solution that isn't going to fix anything.

How many cases of over bearing persecution by police are we talking about? I'm not refering to did drunk A hit drunk B too hard but rather the home invasion, robbery attack scenario where one is presumed to be completely innocent. Are we more likely to get killed by a drunk driver, left turning cager, lightening strike, e-coli etc. Are we hyperventilating over hypotheticals?

 

[OpenGambit]

How many cases of over bearing persecution by police are we talking about? I'm not refering to did drunk A hit drunk B too hard but rather the home invasion, robbery attack scenario where one is presumed to be completely innocent. Are we more likely to get killed by a drunk driver, left turning cager, lightening strike, e-coli etc. Are we hyperventilating over hypotheticals?

I don't have exact numbers, and I won't make them up. But I don't get the impression that it is a lot, when they do happen tho, they are usually pretty high profile, because it is really offensive to any reasonable person's sense of justice.

I wouldn't say its hypothetical because it does happen and it is a problem that people suffer financial hardship. But my point is that introducing a compensation element to the criminal justice system is not the answer. It is rife with unintended consequences that do little to solve the problem, while creating many many others.

 

[OpenGambit]

@ mlc:

so a food critic can never comment on the quality of a meal unless they've been a chef? A movie viewer can never comment on the quality of a movie unless they've directed or produced one? The citizenry of a country can never be critical of a governement or rule unless they've actually governed?

"We must become the change we want to see".

 

[nobbie48]

I don't have exact numbers, and I won't make them up. But I don't get the impression that it is a lot, when they do happen tho, they are usually pretty high profile, because it is really offensive to any reasonable person's sense of justice.

I wouldn't say its hypothetical because it does happen and it is a problem that people suffer financial hardship. But my point is that introducing a compensation element to the criminal justice system is not the answer. It is rife with unintended consequences that do little to solve the problem, while creating many many others.

More or less my point. I would have been surprised if there were ten a year. So hypothetically at $25K per event for legal fees = a $250K overall burden. Eliminate the ones that can afford the fees and the ones who can get legal aid and the overall damage is pretty small.

If people want to talk about the innocent suffering financially they should look at the costs associated with workplace harassment and workplace safety instead.

Look at our lovely vehicle insurance lost wages compensation package where the victim has to buy, in advance, coverage to get them above the minimum wage for something that isn't their fault. Are you more likely to be a rescuer in a home invasion or victim in a motor vehicle collision?

Yes it's a bad deal for the persecuted hero but to set up a government department to administer a few hundred thousand dollars per year would put us down the wrong road. Some things just can't realistically be fixed so we set priorities.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I thought the point was that people that get charged and have their charges dropped because the Crown has no reasonable prospect of conviction should get their fees reimbursed. I obviously picked Bryant because if a rule is going to have any meaning, it has to be applied equally, its not about whether YOU think someone is deserving or not. And the fact that you think Bryant should be carved out shows how arbitrary and bias you are.

Castle doctrine is just your political agenda, since that obviously wouldn't help the chinatown guy.

Thats the thing, if you want a good system, you need good rules, and it appears to me that you are unable to come up with a principle that actually works.

I'm unable to come up with good rules because I'm not a legal professional. That doesn't mean that I'm too ignorant to see a problem when it rears its ugly head.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I do plenty of contructive things in my real life that help real people, I certainly don't feel the need to justify myself to someone who just likes to complain about the system and doesn't do squat.

Yes, because my lack of law school or experience practicing law would make me the right kinda guy to offer actual suggestions on how to revamp the legal profession I didn't ask you to justify yourself, but I did ask if you had any ideas as to how to make the legal profession affordable on an honest buck.

 

[OpenGambit]

If you can give me a good reason why I should respond in earnest I would.

But as long as people here are more interested in insulting me personally every time I post something that they don't agree with. I don't really see why I should.

 

[OpenGambit]

More or less my point. I would have been surprised if there were ten a year. So hypothetically at $25K per event for legal fees = a $250K overall burden. Eliminate the ones that can afford the fees and the ones who can get legal aid and the overall damage is pretty small.

If people want to talk about the innocent suffering financially they should look at the costs associated with workplace harassment and workplace safety instead.

Look at our lovely vehicle insurance lost wages compensation package where the victim has to buy, in advance, coverage to get them above the minimum wage for something that isn't their fault. Are you more likely to be a rescuer in a home invasion or victim in a motor vehicle collision?

Yes it's a bad deal for the persecuted hero but to set up a government department to administer a few hundred thousand dollars per year would put us down the wrong road. Some things just can't realistically be fixed so we set priorities.

Right, but when I say that people here try to tell me that its because I am trying to preserve some imaginary fountain of money that I know for a fact doesn't exist. its utter stupidity.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

If you can give me a good reason why I should respond in earnest I would.

But as long as people here are more interested in insulting me personally every time I post something that they don't agree with. I don't really see why I should.

Hey you're the one dropping insults when somebody posts something contrary to your views. Bottom line:

a) the problem is pretty obvious, the solution isn't
b) you're more qualified to suggest solutions than most of us here

I was asking for your input

 

[OpenGambit]

Hey you're the one dropping insults when somebody posts something contrary to your views.

Then you aren't reading the posts in order.

my comment is also not restricted to this thread.

As for my "input". The best thing anyone can do for Moses is to write him a cheque.