Science vs Prisons

[afong56]

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as firestart pointed out, given the continuing decline in crime rate, i'd like to know what justification there is for increasing spending on prisons. is there a massive infrastructure deficit?

possibly they anticipate a bubble created by criminalizing more offenses and adding to the weight of existing criminal code infractions through their omnibus crime bill (other than those in the legal profession who's actually read it)???

sounds like we're headed down the road to american levels of incarceration per capita. . .

 

[MadPoet]

Well since that's what we had for the last 7 or so years it does seem that the majority of Canadians didn't think it was working and either voted conservative or NDP.

I agree that votes are what counted but we weatherd the storm with that model without extreme policies from either side of the spectrum. I do blame IGGY for being so bankrupt yet stayed on the hope he becomes the next PM.

I don't think government workers are any different than any other workers. I work in a warehouse for dry foods and you should see the dog f**kers here. With the government we all see it as a waste of our tax dollars, blah blah blah. But I don't see people complaining about the dog f**kers making the price of their food go up because the company has to pay more employees to pick up the slack.

Whether you get paid 11$/hr or 31$/hr, there's always going to be dog f**kers making the hard workers look bad.

That's precisely why I said unions are the ones that gives them the bad rep because they keep lousy workers protected. With the current human rights and strong labour laws, there is no need for unions except when it comes for freeloaders and leeches that are given free passes. Look at some of the ridiculous benefits that some get that is not available for the vast majority of Canadians. And on top of that have the guts to go on strike putting the rest of the city/province/country on hold for their extremely selfish demands. I left that ministry because of two things, when I came up with a way to work more efficiently and faster I was told "great ideas but never mention it again because that's just not going to happen". Second reason is that I got tired from doing nothing all day since I finished my quota @10 am, worst experience in my life and it did not add anything to my knowledge or to my career, in fact I was becoming stupider and lazier by the day. I can't imagine if I stayed there for 15-20 years!

 

[short stop]

as firestart pointed out, given the continuing decline in crime rate, i'd like to know what justification there is for increasing spending on prisons. is there a massive infrastructure deficit?

possibly they anticipate a bubble created by criminalizing more offenses and adding to the weight of existing criminal code infractions through their omnibus crime bill (other than those in the legal profession who's actually read it)???

sounds like we're headed down the road to american levels of incarceration per capita. . .

And just look how well THAT has worked out for them.

Again, it's about ideology and not reality. I don't understand how far-right conservatives can act as though they're such pragmatists, and that anyone else is just a "bleeding heart" out in la-la land.

 

[mat2312]

as firestart pointed out, given the continuing decline in crime rate, i'd like to know what justification there is for increasing spending on prisons. is there a massive infrastructure deficit?

possibly they anticipate a bubble created by criminalizing more offenses and adding to the weight of existing criminal code infractions through their omnibus crime bill (other than those in the legal profession who's actually read it)???

sounds like we're headed down the road to american levels of incarceration per capita. . .

Our reported crime rate is lower, but many people are simply not reporting their crimes anymore. There's a common sentiment out there that feels there's no point in reporting a crime and going through the judicial process because the perp will just be out in a month anyway.

We also need proper prisons, ours are overcrowded and falling apart!



What additional offenses have the Conservatives proposed? You mean mandatory minimums that prevent bleeding heart judges from handing out slap on the wrists to repeat offenders? Many Canadians have had enough of the sob stories we hear in court from scumbags.

It seems to be it's been the 'progressive' Liberal governments, at least provincially that's been clamouring for additional laws and regulations. Infact it's the federal Conservative government that is trying to strengthen 'castle law' protections in our CC so innocent people can and will defend themselves against criminals without reprocussions, remove the gun registry and get tough on real criminals.

Honestly, the average citizen in Canada is left with no other choice but the Conservative party, the Liberal party used to be a fairly well run centrist party with some common sense policies and strong leadership. It has since been overwhelmed by left leaning special interest groups who have no money to support the party while forcing it's old base out. The NDP just sells itself out to the highest vote getters and has a platform that simply won't work both fiscally and practically.

 

[afong56]

Our reported crime rate is lower, but many people are simply not reporting their crimes anymore. There's a common sentiment out there that feels there's no point in reporting a crime and going through the judicial process because the perp will just be out in a month anyway.

We also need proper prisons, ours are overcrowded and falling apart!



What additional offenses have the Conservatives proposed? You mean mandatory minimums that prevent bleeding heart judges from handing out slap on the wrists to repeat offenders? Many Canadians have had enough of the sob stories we hear in court from scumbags.

It seems to be it's been the 'progressive' Liberal governments, at least provincially that's been clamouring for additional laws and regulations. Infact it's the federal Conservative government that is trying to strengthen 'castle law' protections in our CC so innocent people can and will defend themselves against criminals without reprocussions, remove the gun registry and get tough on real criminals.

Honestly, the average citizen in Canada is left with no other choice but the Conservative party, the Liberal party used to be a fairly well run centrist party with some common sense policies and strong leadership. It has since been overwhelmed by left leaning special interest groups who have no money to support the party while forcing it's old base out. The NDP just sells itself out to the highest vote getters and has a platform that simply won't work both fiscally and practically.

so other than rhetoric and "sentiment", do you have any facts to support this claim?

. . .given that crime has dropped in canada, the u.s. and britain for decades now, and continues to drop.

oh, and thanks for tacking on the pro-cons screed for the last two paragraphs. . .two words in and readers know they can skip the rest. . .

 

[FiReSTaRT]

so other than rhetoric and "sentiment", do you have any facts to support this claim?

. . .given that crime has dropped in canada, the u.s. and britain for decades now, and continues to drop.

oh, and thanks for tacking on the pro-cons screed for the last two paragraphs. . .two words in and readers know they can skip the rest. . .

But he provided us with a really solid excuse for why we're "spending" (wasting) money on solving a problem that doesn't exist at the expense of public good programs.. Then he provided us with a couple of paragraphs of "information" (propaganda).. All in all, a very "informative" (removed to avoid violation of forum rules) post by mat2312

 

[ariesmars]

Our reported crime rate is lower, but many people are simply not reporting their crimes anymore. There's a common sentiment out there that feels there's no point in reporting a crime and going through the judicial process because the perp will just be out in a month anyway.

We also need proper prisons, ours are overcrowded and falling apart!



What additional offenses have the Conservatives proposed? You mean mandatory minimums that prevent bleeding heart judges from handing out slap on the wrists to repeat offenders? Many Canadians have had enough of the sob stories we hear in court from scumbags.

It seems to be it's been the 'progressive' Liberal governments, at least provincially that's been clamouring for additional laws and regulations. Infact it's the federal Conservative government that is trying to strengthen 'castle law' protections in our CC so innocent people can and will defend themselves against criminals without reprocussions, remove the gun registry and get tough on real criminals.

Honestly, the average citizen in Canada is left with no other choice but the Conservative party, the Liberal party used to be a fairly well run centrist party with some common sense policies and strong leadership. It has since been overwhelmed by left leaning special interest groups who have no money to support the party while forcing it's old base out. The NDP just sells itself out to the highest vote getters and has a platform that simply won't work both fiscally and practically.

How many unreported crimes does it take to justify build more prisons? Millions? Are there millions of unreported incidents of crime? Probably not. Are there hundreds of thousands?....

Look at the murder rate of countries in order to gauge the level of crime in a given society. Canada is near the bottom of that list per-capita. You're more safe in Canada than nearly any other country in Western Hemisphere.

But he provided us with a really solid excuse for why we're "spending" (wasting) money on solving a problem that doesn't exist at the expense of public good programs.. Then he provided us with a couple of paragraphs of "information" (propaganda).. All in all, a very "informative" (removed to avoid violation of forum rules) post by mat2312

+1

 

[imnothng]

We also need proper prisons, ours are overcrowded and falling apart!

Is this the case? I think everyone jumps to conclusions when they hear that more prisons are being built. I for one jump to the conclusion that we need newer prisons so that's why they are building them.

 

[Freestyle72]

Next to fall is that stupid stupid man MCguinty with his HST thing. THEN my friend we will be very RIGHT, I can foresee an NDP government next for both after the conservatives and THEN AGAIN we are royally shafted. IMHO I think a mix of ideologies would be the closest to a decent government (I.e. A minority conservative with liberal opposition or vice versa and the NDP to rock the boat)

Back to the OP, government workers have a very bad rep, anyone here who works or worked before for any ministry like myself will know exactly what I mean. I think it is mostly unions that gives them the bad rep. And I find it difficult for the common folks who work their butts off for $11/hr would sympathize for the unionized jobs being lost, putting science & prisons aside.

After having worked in a government office for the past 6 months as a consultant I know exactly where the rep comes from. It comes from laziness. And the fact that merit has very little to do with success in a government organization.

They show up whenever the hell they want to. And always leave by 5:00 sharp. Hell the president of the company would come in late a few times a week on average.

In most companies management typically come in early and leave late on a daily basis. But when you work for the man no one is really evaluating your performance unless some political gains are hinging on your success.

I have nothing against government workers as it really isn't their fault. It's the system that doesn't force government run organizations to take a structure more like a private owned company where performance and making the company $$$ is what gets you a raise. Not how long you have been there.

 

[mbroyda]

I've done contract work for the MOE, and can tell you first hand that these jobs are being cut for a reason, and the reason is that they are useless, most of these people don't do anything, I don't know how they got they got their positions, or who came up with these positions to begin with, but for the most part they are useless.
People coming to work whenever they want, looking for excuses to leave work with pay, doing 2hrs of work for every 8 they log in.
I feel really sorry for the people getting cut, as they will have no clue how to survive in the real world, the concept of having to do work in order to get paid is unheard of to them.

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