Sale price on a bill of sale | GTAMotorcycle.com

Sale price on a bill of sale

clyder

clyder

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Hey gang,

What's your opinion on the sale price on a bill of sale? For a 3k bike let's say, can I write 200$ and get away with that or will service ontario will find that sketchy? Your thought?

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There's no black book value so yes you could "theoretically" and they don't care.
 
Yes you may...
 
You can put whatever you want. It's up to your own personal morality. Once enough people get too greedy, the government will step in and make the process tremendously complicated and difficult.
 
Don't be crazy and you won't attract attention.

If you attract attention the ministry can and will send out a inquiry document to both parties, sometimes months later, asking you to verify the amount of the sale, so you'd best have your ducks in a row. I got this exact document once when I sold an old trailer for (legitimately) a few hundred dollars and wrote the receipt accordingly, but apparently someone thought the value was too low and sent out this inquiry to both parties in presumably an effort to make sure one didn't say one value, and another saying something drastically higher.

We emailed each other again to confirm the values, filled them in, sent them back, and that was that.

Beyond that, unless they find a discrepancy on that sort of paperwork, or they have reason to believe you are intentionally trying to defraud the system (like doing something completely insane like telling them you're selling a 2016 bike for a declared value of $250, for example) I don't think there's much they can do, or will be bothered to do. Just be reasonable, it's not worth a potential fraud charge (as in my above example where it's clearly batshit crazy) to save a few hundred dollars on taxes.
 
You dont need a bill of sales. You can just tell them how much you paid.

They can send an inquiry to both parties, but you're not required to actually complete them.

I tell people I buy bikes from I'm telling the MTO I paid $1. I tell the MTO I paid $1. They look at you funny but can't do anything. I don't believe its right to make people pay taxes into the government from a private sale, on an item they already got taxes on (when it was bought from the dealership.) Every time someone sells a used vehicle the government gets more money for nothing.
 
Sabex said:
You dont need a bill of sales. You can just tell them how much you paid.

They can send an inquiry to both parties, but you're not required to actually complete them.

I tell people I buy bikes from I'm telling the MTO I paid $1. I tell the MTO I paid $1. They look at you funny but can't do anything. I don't believe its right to make people pay taxes into the government from a private sale, on an item they already got taxes on (when it was bought from the dealership.) Every time someone sells a used vehicle the government gets more money for nothing.
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I agree 100%. Its borderline ripping off. On average the goverment get 85% of the original cost of a vehicle sold. That is fcking absurb. This tax on private sale makes no sense. They can do this because a vehicle requires registration. Imagine you have to pay tax when youbuy an iphone on kijiji.
 
cool said:
I agree 100%. Its borderline ripping off. On average the goverment get 85% of the original cost of a vehicle sold. That is fcking absurb. This tax on private sale makes no sense. They can do this because a vehicle requires registration. Imagine you have to pay tax when youbuy an iphone on kijiji.
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This .... I find it hilarious that some people mix up morality with this sort of taxing. I consider it immoral to give them tax on something they have already taxed probably more than once before I got to it.
 
Tell them it was a gift and declare the value at $1.
What are they gonna do about it?
 
If we're going to get into morality then there are some people who will attempt to rationalize their misdeeds by claiming that someone else is actually trying to do a misdeed to them, and they are therefore justified in reciprocating. Taxes are supposed to work that way. It's the method that the government creates and controls money. They take their little chunk at each step and then plow it back into services. In the end you are the government, and you're ripping yourself off. If you can't afford to pay, then you shouldn't play. You'll just dig yourself a deeper hole.
 
Why is it just for the government to tax a private sale on an item where tax has already been collected?

Why then do you not have to pay tax on stuff you buy at a garage sale, random stuff you buy on kijiji or craigslist?

Just another chance to collect money for doing nothing.

I already pay enough income tax (50%) so I already pay to play in my eyes.
 
Why don't you have to pay 13% HST on a used $1,000,000 house in the GTA?
 
miggs said:
Tell them it was a gift and declare the value at $1.
What are they gonna do about it?
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You can't gift a vehicle and be tax exempt - unless it's family.

Just tell them it's a low figure and you gave them stuff like a computer or tv etc as part of the deal.
 
Simple. Buy the bike for 200$ and the manual for 2800$. The government already got their tax money.
 
^^^
*slow clap*
 
miggs said:
Why is it just for the government to tax a private sale on an item where tax has already been collected? Why then do you not have to pay tax on stuff you buy at a garage sale, random stuff you buy on kijiji or craigslist? Just another chance to collect money for doing nothing. I already pay enough income tax (50%) so I already pay to play in my eyes.
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If that were truly the case, then consumers wouldn't pay tax at all, as it's usually already been paid. You're most likely supposed to pay tax on all that, but the government doesn't pursue it yet. Income tax isn't the same. Anyways, if people were truly interested in paying lower taxes, and small government, they would have elected fiscally conservative people, which they didn't. The governments need to raise money somehow to pay all of their employees. One of those methods is taxes.
 
PaisaMed said:
Why don't you have to pay 13% HST on a used $1,000,000 house in the GTA?
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Land transfer tax isn't it? So different rate. Might have to pay something, if you move the house somewhere else.

edit: Government wants people to buy houses.

Here's what I found for you:

New housing The term new housing used throughout this info sheet refers to newly constructed or substantially renovated housing. Housing that has been substantially renovated is generally given the same treatment under the GST/HST as newly constructed housing. Extensive modifications must be made to the housing in order to meet the definition of a "substantial renovation" for GST/HST purposes. For a full explanation of the factors to consider in deciding if a substantial renovation has taken place, refer to GST/HST Technical Information Bulletin B-092, Substantial Renovations and the GST/HST New Housing Rebate. Sales and resales of new housing – General rules As explained in GST/HST Memorandum 19.2.1, Residential Real Property – Sales, the sale of new housing by someone other than a "builder" is generally exempt from the GST/HST. Conversely, the sale of new housing by a builder is generally taxable for GST/HST purposes. A builder may include a person who physically constructs the housing, but may also include a person who, because of the circumstances surrounding a sale or their intentions at the time of their own purchase, buys previously unoccupied housing for the purpose of selling it. Generally, the HST applies where a builder sells (or resells) new housing in Ontario or B.C. and both ownership and possession of the housing are transferred after June 2010. However, exceptions are made for "grandparented sales of housing".

Anyways, if you don't like the way things are, then complain to your elected officials, and vote them out in favour of someone who does things the way you like.
 
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Neil_V said:
And out of our personal transportation in favor of public; so I think we can check the morality argument at the door
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Meh, rationalize cheating all you want.
 
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