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Running away from cops

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Splash said:
Really? So I don't have the right to remain silent? Sure.....
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Arguing semantics is asinine and contributes NOTHING to the conversation. Please have a seat over there ----> until you're ready to contribute.He was obviously referencing the American 5th Amendment which was put in place so that you don't have to answer any questions whether during interrogation or on trial that would incriminate yourself. In Canada if you take the stand you MUST answer any questions put to you truthfully or else you'd be charged with Contempt or Perjury. This is why it would be stupid to put yourself on the stand at an HTA trial.The right to not answer any questions is completely irrelevant and if you are being arrested the first and only thing you should say is that you want to retain duty counsel. THEN you remain silent. AFAIK the only similar provision we have is that you can't be called to the stand by the Crown to act as witness against yourself. However, if you take the stand in your own defence you're fair game on cross examination and you're stupid.
 
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JohnnyP636 said:
Dangerious Driving with flight is the charge, at first appearance they will ask for jail time

As for the cops going to your house, that will only hurt you if you admit to anything..

Last year my bike was towed by the police, when I called the police to find out what was up. They put me through directly to a police officer that said I ran from him, then parked my bike and took off on foot. I said no you towed my bike when I was not there, still he said there was an investigation on going so my bike was at the police pound for a 10 day hold, and would not be released to me until I come in to leave a statement...So I went to the police station, he took me into a questioning room with another superior of his, and basically told me to admit that I ran from him. I told him I have no idea what your talking about I did nothing but park my bike and have it towed while I was not around, he then said if it wasnt you then who was it. I said I let many of my friends borrow my bike, but I am not going to involve anyone unless I am under arrest or am charged with anything. I then said that is all Im going to say, can I leave. He flipped his lid, and said hes going to keep my bike. Then the other cop cut in and said actually we have no evidence for that, so we have to let him go and release his bike. Still I had to pay for the towing and storage fee! And they damaged my bike.... Bastards...I even had to get my lawyer to call him, and tell him to stop calling me otherwise I would sue him for harassment ..He was calling my mothers house, and my work, telling anyone of my family he could that I was going to jail.

The thing about police chases is they can not loose sight of you, that loss of sight for any amount of time brings in reasonable doubt. It could be the person that ram, or in my case it could have just been another bike that was a similar color...ughh
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Dude....that sounds ****ing retarded. I never understood why police are allowed to **** with our vehicles and not pay for damages or harass family members for fun in hopes of forcing us to say something stupid. I know one guy with a 350Z that's friend was doing really stupid **** on it. When the car got impounded, it somehow ended up with cosmetic damages. Cops never paid for it.

Also have a story involving some hearsay with me owning a gun that made everyone in my family worry cause the cop kept calling everyone that I was going to jail for owning one without a license (it was a replica BB gun).

Cops are always above the law and they wonder why most of us hate or don't respect them.
 
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Please don't make this a cop hating thread. That will result in me either tossing it into the Trash Talk cop haters thread, or scrubbing it of everything that doesn't apply to the original question in order to keep the thread here.
 
Macs said:
Arguing semantics is asinine and contributes NOTHING to the conversation. Please have a seat over there ----> until you're ready to contribute.He was obviously referencing the American 5th Amendment which was put in place so that you don't have to answer any questions whether during interrogation or on trial that would incriminate yourself. In Canada if you take the stand you MUST answer any questions put to you truthfully or else you'd be charged with Contempt or Perjury. This is why it would be stupid to put yourself on the stand at an HTA trial.The right to not answer any questions is completely irrelevant and if you are being arrested the first and only thing you should say is that you want to retain duty counsel. THEN you remain silent. AFAIK the only similar provision we have is that you can't be called to the stand by the Crown to act as witness against yourself. However, if you take the stand in your own defence you're fair game on cross examination and you're stupid.
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The only addition I would add is that if you do take the stand against someone else, and reveal information that incriminates you, that can not be used against you in future proceedings (this is actually the essence of the Canadian right).

The "right to silence" in Canada should be seen as a right not to be compelled to produce evidence against yourself. So you can't be compelled to produce a blood sample either - meaning that its not about "talking". However, you can MOST DEFINATELY be compelled to produce evidence against others, however it it not usually done because law enforcement knows that its not effective, and really quite distasteful...


PS. you get to do the corrections from now on. because 1. you are closer to the material, and 2. you have more time.
 
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Shaman said:
If it ever happens and they come to your house (assuming that they didn't follow you into your driveway) - you don't know anything about it and if they try to enter your home, tell them firmly that without a warrant, they are acting unlawfully and will be charged with whatever laws may apply. Having a screen door you can lock is a good idea... further if they continue to badger you, your response is "no you cannot enter my house or garage and if this conversation is to go any further, I need you to show me a warrant."

If they have a warrant, well... they may confiscate your bike for "evidence," in which case you get right on the phone with your lawyer and/or the police chief and tell them that you were not in any way involved and this is all a big surprise to you, and you want to see what evidence they have that you or your bike was involved in something illegal. If you push hard enough, you'll get your bike right back but bottom line is they will likely charge you towing and possibly storage fees... similar to HTA 172. Which is why you want to get on the phone right away and do contact counsel if you must.

The answer to every question they might have is "I have no statement to make and do not wish to answer any questions." There's virtually no way for them to prove that it was you, unless you were caught in the act (aka stopped, crashed, were followed directly home). So don't give up and don't give them any information - tell them that you were advised by counsel never to speak to police without them present. They don't have enough evidence to convict, and they will drop it ever time - if you are smart. DON'T answer questions like "where were you, etc." because you are innocent until PROVEN guilty, not the other way around... you will just dig the hole you are in even deeper.

FYI
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^ thanks
 
The problem with running is, and always will be. s. 25 of the CCC, which allows the use of lethal force to stop you.

(4) A peace officer, and every person lawfully assisting the peace officer, is justified in using force that is intended or is likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm to a person to be arrested, if

  • (a) the peace officer is proceeding lawfully to arrest, with or without warrant, the person to be arrested;
  • (b) the offence for which the person is to be arrested is one for which that person may be arrested without warrant;
  • (c) the person to be arrested takes flight to avoid arrest;
  • (d) the peace officer or other person using the force believes on reasonable grounds that the force is necessary for the purpose of protecting the peace officer, the person lawfully assisting the peace officer or any other person from imminent or future death or grievous bodily harm; and
  • (e) the flight cannot be prevented by reasonable means in a less violent manner.
 
OpenGambit said:
  • (d) the peace officer or other person using the force believes on reasonable grounds that the force is necessary for the purpose of protecting the peace officer, the person lawfully assisting the peace officer or any other person from imminent or future death or grievous bodily harm; and
  • (e) the flight cannot be prevented by reasonable means in a less violent manner.
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These are the things to bear in mind. It takes a really hard-*** cop to shoot somebody if they're not threatened. But you might run into one of the real sociopaths... lord knows there's enough of them on the "force."
 
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Shaman said:
These are the things to bear in mind. It takes a really hard-4ss cop to shoot somebody if they're not threatened. But you might run into one of the real sociopaths... lord knows there's enough of them on the "force."
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Sure. The other thing to bear in mind is that if you are fleeing, you ARE violating the ccc. No force, lethal or otherwise, would be required if you weren't.
 
Shaman said:
These are the things to bear in mind. It takes a really hard-4ss cop to shoot somebody if they're not threatened. But you might run into one of the real sociopaths... lord knows there's enough of them on the "force."
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Thats hardly any protection for something that has already happened...

I might also say that you can't control whats in the cop's knowledge, if he also has a description of a suspect fleeing an armed robbery that matches your description... That is a bad scenario waiting to happen.
 
OpenGambit said:
PS. you get to do the corrections from now on. because 1. you are closer to the material, and 2. you have more time.
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Oh god...well maybe if I show my Dept. Head the correction posts he'll write a good reference letter in 2 years :p

Shaman said:
These are the things to bear in mind. It takes a really hard-4ss cop to shoot somebody if they're not threatened. But you might run into one of the real sociopaths... lord knows there's enough of them on the "force."
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Plenty of cops have a hard-on for riders, plenty of those cops have had guys run and escape. If you run you're playing with fire. I remember back when I used to lurk and not post, turbodish (was he a cop?) was advocating using spike strips on fleeing bikes in the city/around corners etc. That would be plenty deadly and cops know it.

However, our other protection in that scenario is that the pursuing officer doesn't get to decide when it's appropriate to use force. Based on what I've been told by friends in the OPP if they engage in pursuit the duty Sgt. makes any and all decisions including whether or not to continue pursuit.
 
Macs said:
Oh god...well maybe if I show my Dept. Head the correction posts he'll write a good reference letter in 2 years :p
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read the snide comments for a week and you get to where I am at with this...
 
Macs said:
However, our other protection in that scenario is that the pursuing officer doesn't get to decide when it's appropriate to use force. Based on what I've been told by friends in the OPP if they engage in pursuit the duty Sgt. makes any and all decisions including whether or not to continue pursuit.
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This is true, but not all cops are law-abiding enough to actually follow the rules. In fact, judging from my personal experience, I'd say many of them just conveniently forget to mention that they are cruising at 200km/h but "not in pursuit" to the dispatcher / duty sgt. My H.R. friend in the force tells me that this is a major major issue that they are getting a lot of public input on these last few years, what with all the insanity going on with the chiefs constantly trying to gather more power and lower liability. General consensus among many parties is that the chiefs are demented, and the commissioner from B.C. is truly a tyrant. Unfortunately, those attitudes have a way of working their way downhill. At least Fantino is out of the forces...
 
OpenGambit said:
read the snide comments for a week and you get to where I am at with this...
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Oh I see them. Since right now for me it's a toss up between getting into law enforcement or going to law school I figure there's nothing to lose by honing my debating skills online. Specially since sometimes it's like talking to a wall.

Shaman said:
This is true, but not all cops are law-abiding enough to actually follow the rules. In fact, judging from my personal experience, I'd say many of them just conveniently forget to mention that they are cruising at 200km/h but "not in pursuit" to the dispatcher / duty sgt. My H.R. friend in the force tells me that this is a major major issue that they are getting a lot of public input on these last few years, what with all the insanity going on with the chiefs constantly trying to gather more power and lower liability. General consensus among many parties is that the chiefs are demented, and the commissioner from B.C. is truly a tyrant. Unfortunately, those attitudes have a way of working their way downhill. At least Fantino is out of the forces...
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I know I'm beating a dead horse but: There are good and bad people in every workplace. Plenty of cops are great, upstanding, selfless people that genuinely want to do good. Unfortunately those types don't make the Traffic Unit (or the OPP, sorry guys).

On the one hand, running is understandable, on the other it's more trouble than it's worth. IMO if riding meant that much to those who run, they would keep the hooliganism and high speed to the track.
 
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Macs said:
Oh I see them. Since right now for me it's a toss up between getting into law enforcement or going to law school I figure there's nothing to lose by honing my debating skills online. Specially since sometimes it's like talking to a wall.
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law school.... join the dark side :)
 
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