Roy Halliday Dies

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GreyGhost said:
And given the numbers involved, they will have no shortage of lawyers lining up to help them. Finding a lawyer to help the minimum wage earner would be much harder even though their family probably needs the money more.

I wonder what amount of insurance airplane manufacturers carry? Obviously Icon isn't Boeing or Bombardier, there is almost no capital in the company, whatever money is won in a lawsuit is in the liability policy. This will likely be a much much lower number than 25 years of Halliday's earning potential. Is it possible that Halliday's family end up owning Icon? The policy won't be big enough, about Icon has worth money is an airplane design and associated manufacturing operation. Instead of going bankrupt if they lost, could ownership transfer to Mrs. Halliday to save the company?
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Going back a few years there was a company making helicopter kits for home builders. They stated that they owned next to nothing. Premises and tooling were leased. They said they would make reasonable compensations but if things went nuts the person suing would end up owning a helicopter company.

When I was flying Cessnas it was rumored that liability insurance was half the cost of making a C-172. They could be sued over planes that were decades old. In one case a drunk non-pilot stole an airplane and crashed it. Cessna got sued because it was too easy to hot wire.

If you want to see NTSB results there are a number of crash videos on Youtube showing the final results as well as a CGI of how the problem progressed. Warning: Watch too many and you may not want fly again and it's not just terrorist crap either.
 
nobbie48 said:
If you want to see NTSB results there are a number of crash videos on Youtube showing the final results as well as a CGI of how the problem progressed. Warning: Watch too many and you may not want fly again and it's not just terrorist crap either.
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NTSB incident videos are great learning tools. USCSB has great videos on chemical incidents if you don't want to feel safe on the ground to balance out your fears.
 
off topic
but wondering why the site has no thanks button?
much easier way to acknowledge a post you agree with
than quoting, which often gets confused for disagreement
and clogs up the thread, like this post is doing
 
JavaFan said:
off topic
but wondering why the site has no thanks button?
much easier way to acknowledge a post you agree with
than quoting, which often gets confused for disagreement
and clogs up the thread, like this post is doing
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We used to have reputation (similar to thanks). It became worse than a bunch of teenage girls trying to get Biebers autograph and was turned off.
 
The transportation safety Board report won’t come out for years, in the interim reports laid no blame, Nor would one expect them to - the TSB does not jump to conclusions.

As for the “like” feature, we would have to speak to the admin‘s about that, they are available via plug-ins. I agree the reputation system is flawed versus a simple “like this response” system.
 
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JavaFan said:
waivers keep the poor from suing...and are generally useless when challenged
Halladay had 25 years of earning potential left
wife and 2 kids used to a very comfortable lifestyle
yeah, I'd expect them to sue
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I would think a good part of the income he would have earned over the next 25 years would have come from what he had left over from his ball career. His nest egg will still earn even though he's dead...
 
GreyGhost said:
And given the numbers involved, they will have no shortage of lawyers lining up to help them. Finding a lawyer to help the minimum wage earner would be much harder even though their family probably needs the money more.

I wonder what amount of insurance airplane manufacturers carry? Obviously Icon isn't Boeing or Bombardier, there is almost no capital in the company, whatever money is won in a lawsuit is in the liability policy. This will likely be a much much lower number than 25 years of Halliday's earning potential. Is it possible that Halliday's family end up owning Icon? The policy won't be big enough, about Icon has worth money is an airplane design and associated manufacturing operation. Instead of going bankrupt if they lost, could ownership transfer to Mrs. Halliday to save the company?
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All of their customers have a lot of money.. I doubt Halliday's wealth stands out amongst the group.
They were planning for this kind of thing when they wrote the agreements.
They have enough insurance and there's a lot of lawyers involved.
 
How did the lawsuit against Porsche end up from the Paul Walker estate? I remember they stated they'll be suing Porsche for selling a car that's 'unsafe' to drive...

I mean if I buy a product and use it recklessly...I can sue the manufacturer for getting injured? Wow...whatever happened to people taking responsibility for their actions.

I'll go buy a Ferrari and wrap it around a pole cause I don't know how to drive it...car was too powerful....F-U Ferrari...pay up.
 
mimico_polak said:
I mean if I buy a product and use it recklessly...I can sue the manufacturer for getting injured? Wow...whatever happened to people taking responsibility for their actions.
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Welcome to the world where packs of steak knives have warning labels to "Keep away from children", the 99 Cent pool toy from the dollar store is labelled "Not a life saving device", plastic bags have "Can cause suffocation" stamped on them, and McDonalds coffee cups have to state that the "Contents are hot".

To post but a few token examples.

Litigious people who want their own stupidity to equate to someone else's fault suck.
 
raginduck said:
I would think a good part of the income he would have earned over the next 25 years would have come from what he had left over from his ball career. His nest egg will still earn even though he's dead...
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I agree, and there's no doubt if they're sued, Icon will try to make that point

don't know what Halladay did after baseball
like if he was a broadcaster or a coach or whatever...
his family should be okay, financially anyway, without Dad
 
GreyGhost said:
Porsche settled.
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They both settled. Terms undisclosed. I doubt it was for a huge amount (if anything) given as how Porsche probably has a lot of high priced lawyers on staff, and the arguments against Porsche being negligent in that case were weak at best, and laughable at worst.
 
PrivatePilot said:
They both settled. Terms undisclosed. I doubt it was for a huge amount (if anything) given as how Porsche probably has a lot of high priced lawyers on staff, and the arguments against Porsche being negligent in that case were weak at best, and laughable at worst.
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Walkers daughter won because walker survived the initial crash and died in the fire (there were arguments regarding the seatbelt not releasing and whether a fuel cell should have been provided in the GT). The drivers family lost because he died of blunt force trauma and therefore any possible deficiencies in the vehicle regarding escape or fire were immaterial.

Given the force of Halliday's impact, I doubt Icon could have designed anything into the plane to keep him alive (The preliminary NTSB report describes the cockpit as shattered and the tail was broken off and in front of the cockpit). They will need a different argument to win (assuming that the plane didn't have a failure that contributed).

It would be really interesting to see the training program. If any part of that program had stunt flying in it (which seems plausible given that someone has just handed you 400K and you want them to be happy), Icon will be in trouble.
 
looks like a lawsuit against the plane manufacturer is unlikely
autopsy results are out

again....RIP

Former Toronto Blue Jays star pitcher Roy Halladay had morphine and amphetamines in his system
at the time of his fatal plane crash in the Gulf of Mexico in November,
according to an autopsy report obtained by TMZ and the Tampa Bay Times.
Additionally, Halladay also had the sedative zolpidem — commonly sold under the brand name Ambien
in his body at the time of the crash, TMZ reports, citing a report released by the Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner’s Office.
The report also reveals that Halladay suffered a subdural hemorrhage, multiple rib fractures
a leg fracture and injuries to his lungs, liver and spleen.
 
JavaFan said:
looks like a lawsuit against the plane manufacturer is unlikely
autopsy results are out

again....RIP

Former Toronto Blue Jays star pitcher Roy Halladay had morphine and amphetamines in his system
at the time of his fatal plane crash in the Gulf of Mexico in November,
according to an autopsy report obtained by TMZ and the Tampa Bay Times.
Additionally, Halladay also had the sedative zolpidem — commonly sold under the brand name Ambien
in his body at the time of the crash, TMZ reports, citing a report released by the Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner’s Office.
The report also reveals that Halladay suffered a subdural hemorrhage, multiple rib fractures
a leg fracture and injuries to his lungs, liver and spleen.
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Icarus
 
kruzuki said:
Why'd he need an airplane? Seems like he was already high enough. Stupid waste of talent.
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Blood alcohol was 0.01, I didn't see anything about levels of the morphine/amphetamine/ambien so I don't know if they were possibly intoxicating or just traces that were present.

In US, airline pilot cutoff is 0.04 (seems high for someone responsible for hundreds of lives), it look like this limit applies to general aviation as well.
 
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/01/20/roy-halladay-plane-crash/1050708001/

William A. Pellan, the director of investigations for the medical examiner’s office, told USA TODAY Sports that the morphine in Halladay's system was "likely an opiate for pain." Hydromorphone, a narcotic pain reliever marketed under the name Dilaudid, was found in Halladay's blood, according to the toxicology report.

Pellan said his office was “responsible for determining cause and manner of death” and whether he was impaired “would not be under the purview of the medical examiner to determine.” That determination would have to to come from the National Transportation Safety Board, Pellan said.

NTSB spokesperson Terry Williams told USA TODAY Sports on Friday the investigation is still pending.

So other than the BAC reading, the other drug percentages aren't listed. The effect of the drug combo is guestimated but every person has their own body chemistry that would produce different results.

Regardless, pursuing legal action against Icon would be an uphill battle. The only card the Halladay team would hold is that Icon advertising was somewhat exuberant.

Would Icon settle out of court for a few bucks to save defense money and put the whole thing quickly behind them?

Years of smears could flatten sales.
 
So not abusive levels of Ambien (although possibly contributing).

Morphine in the ballpark of normal therapeutic dose (~100ng/mL).

Amphetamine data on the internet is all over the place. Drug testing for workplaces flag at 300 to 1000 ng/mL. Studies show that peak levels can reach 2000 ng/mL.

So it looks like he took his morning morphine and adderall and went out flying. You can get FAA medical approval for amphetamines for ADHD but it takes a ton of testing and doctoring before they will approve (not sure if this applies to PPL).

Icarus seems to be the best analogy. Pushed himself and the plane hard with the low recoveries and the addition of mind altering drugs didn't help him.

from cbc.ca

"According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, more than 50 ng/ml of zolpidem "appears capable of impairing driving to a degree that increases the risk of a motor vehicle accident." Halladay's blood tested positive for 72 ng/ml."

from philly.com
Halladay’s blood content of morphine (160 ng/mL), amphetamine (1800 ng/mL), and zolpidem (72 ng/mL)
 
Its often the cocktail of drugs that becomes the problem, small amounts of one or the other not so much , its often the magnifacation of some drugs properties when they mix with others.
Not sure why these guys that have access to lots of drugs need to take them all on the same day, pace yourselves you millionaire idiots.
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