Roofing cost question

J

jc100

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First off I'm not in the GTA, I'm in Kingston. I recently got a roof reshingled and the initial quote for the reshingling of a 1400 square foot roof was fine. At the start of the work (after quite a few old shingles had been removed) the contractor (one we've used before and were very happy with) called to say that the roof had wooden shakes on and plywood needed to be fitted over them for the warranty on the shingles to work. I agreed after the contractor said he would only charge for cost of materials and the roof crew labour to cover his costs, not to make a profit on this part of the contract. Just received the quote for the plywood coverage and it comes to $100 a board (44 4x8 boards, rounded up to 50). I pointed out that a $20 board doesn't require 2-3h of labour to install and the workers were only there a day and a half (four of them for 15h) to tear off the old shingles, put on the plywood and install the new shingles. There simply aren't enough hours there to warrant that price.

I looked online and the "consumer" price seems to be about $2 per square foot materials and labour for plywood installation which is more than $2k less than my quote. Another quote shows $50 per board installation, again much less than my quote.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this or can offer a useful comment before I start going down the argument (and more) route.

Cheers.
 
First thing I would do is inspect the roof myself to determine if it actually requires the plywood. Just because you have a wooden shake or plank type roof doesnt necessarily mean it needs replacement. Most of the time these roofers try to upsell the extra work. I wouldn't worry about the shingle warranty. Those things never last as long as say they will. And whos to say if that this company will be around in 10 to 15 years when its time to redo the roof anyway.
I was told the same as you 12 years ago and my roof is as good as the day the house was built 50 years ago. Now having said all this I have no idea on the condition of your roof. You need to determine that first.

good luck
 
My girlfriend just had her roof shingled....one guy said if any plywood needed to be replaced it would be $65 a sheet installed.
The guy we had do the job said he charges $50 a sheet installed.
Doing the whole roof I could see the guy makin a bit of profit...but ya $100 a sheet installed is alot too much. But also your roof maybe difficult to do...depending on the slope.
 
It's a low pitch slope, 1-2 storeys (side split house). Not a difficult roof at all. $50 a sheet seems reasonable at consumer cost, I'd expect the "at cost" price to be less though. I'm convinced $100 a sheet is insane. I can see where the contractor may have made an error as nearly half the house is actually flat roof. If they just measured exterior walls then they would have double the area of the shingled roof. I've pointed this out to them.
 
Well what are your options here, hes already started the job no?

If he did really price it out that high get on him about the price and he will bring it down.
 
Job's done...finished. I had to make a decision about the plywood in a phone call after the work had started. The roof crew was already on the roof and some of the old shingles had already been torn off. I got them to agree to just cover costs only for this part of the job as this was an unexpected expense and we were a repeat customer. On the basis of this, and even on the base of the average full consumer cost to put plywood onto a roof I disagree with the current quote.

Is there much I can do? I'm not sure, but if I have my facts straight (which this thread is part of) then at the very least I'll put a complaint into the better business bureau. If I'm wrong, again this is why I'm getting opinions, then I'll accept that and pay up. Right now..I really don't think I'm wrong. I don't mind paying a few hundred dollars premium to use a good company but I'm not paying nearly twice over the average cost for this especially when I was explicitly told it would just be "at cost" to the contractor.
 
jc100 said:
Job's done...finished. I had to make a decision about the plywood in a phone call after the work had started. The roof crew was already on the roof and some of the old shingles had already been torn off. I got them to agree to just cover costs only for this part of the job as this was an unexpected expense and we were a repeat customer. On the basis of this, and even on the base of the average full consumer cost to put plywood onto a roof I disagree with the current quote.

Is there much I can do? I'm not sure, but if I have my facts straight (which this thread is part of) then at the very least I'll put a complaint into the better business bureau. If I'm wrong, again this is why I'm getting opinions, then I'll accept that and pay up. Right now..I really don't think I'm wrong. I don't mind paying a few hundred dollars premium to use a good company but I'm not paying nearly twice over the average cost for this especially when I was explicitly told it would just be "at cost" to the contractor.
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Gets some quotes from other companies and present them to him with you concerns.

Whats the worst thats going to happen? You going to end up paying the full bill? Give it a shot....I dont think your in the wrong and I deal with stupid customers daily.
 
jc100 said:
Job's done...finished. I had to make a decision about the plywood in a phone call after the work had started. The roof crew was already on the roof and some of the old shingles had already been torn off. I got them to agree to just cover costs only for this part of the job as this was an unexpected expense and we were a repeat customer. On the basis of this, and even on the base of the average full consumer cost to put plywood onto a roof I disagree with the current quote.

Is there much I can do? I'm not sure, but if I have my facts straight (which this thread is part of) then at the very least I'll put a complaint into the better business bureau. If I'm wrong, again this is why I'm getting opinions, then I'll accept that and pay up. Right now..I really don't think I'm wrong. I don't mind paying a few hundred dollars premium to use a good company but I'm not paying nearly twice over the average cost for this especially when I was explicitly told it would just be "at cost" to the contractor.
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If he is doing it "at cost", then he should be able to show you his receipts for his cost of the materials he used. You are at his mercy for the amount of labour it took. Don't forget his cost is also the disposal of the waste that was generated from the extra work.
 
There was already a skip there for the reshingle job. The only waste I saw from the plywood was about 1.5 sheets worth.
 
Better Business Bureau? Do people still take them seriously? Pay a couple of c-notes a year and no matter how much people complain about you, those complaints "disappear". That's what their racket is all about.
 
jc100 said:
First off I'm not in the GTA, I'm in Kingston. I recently got a roof reshingled and the initial quote for the reshingling of a 1400 square foot roof was fine. At the start of the work (after quite a few old shingles had been removed) the contractor (one we've used before and were very happy with) called to say that the roof had wooden shakes on and plywood needed to be fitted over them for the warranty on the shingles to work. I agreed after the contractor said he would only charge for cost of materials and the roof crew labour to cover his costs, not to make a profit on this part of the contract. Just received the quote for the plywood coverage and it comes to $100 a board (44 4x8 boards, rounded up to 50). I pointed out that a $20 board doesn't require 2-3h of labour to install and the workers were only there a day and a half (four of them for 15h) to tear off the old shingles, put on the plywood and install the new shingles. There simply aren't enough hours there to warrant that price.

I looked online and the "consumer" price seems to be about $2 per square foot materials and labour for plywood installation which is more than $2k less than my quote. Another quote shows $50 per board installation, again much less than my quote.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this or can offer a useful comment before I start going down the argument (and more) route.

Cheers.
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4 guys x 15hours x 20$ an hour =1200 bucks. add in the materials and 2K isn't that far off.

next time go to home depot, get all the necessary material, tools and get up there and do the work yourself. its easy to talk **** when you're not the one doing the work lol
 
Paul1000RR said:
4 guys x 15hours x 20$ an hour =1200 bucks. add in the materials and 2K isn't that far off.

next time go to home depot, get all the necessary material, tools and get up there and do the work yourself. its easy to talk **** when you're not the one doing the work lol
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Maybe I am reading this wrong but I read that the entire job took 15 hours in which he was charged $5000 for the plywood and installation on top of the price of the shingles and shingle installation.
 
murdlem said:
Maybe I am reading this wrong but I read that the entire job took 15 hours in which he was charged $5000 for the plywood and installation on top of the price of the shingles and shingle installation.
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Correct, $5000 is my current quote. From what I understand the quote should be under $2800.
 
Plywood is in around $25 plus nails $5 add $30 labour...getting it haulin it cutting etc.
$60 x 50 sheets = $3000
Ya u got nailed...
 
Paul1000RR said:
4 guys x 15hours x 20$ an hour
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The best part about just charging for labor is they pick the highest guys wage (or a number higher than that!), and base that for everyone. So if they had 3 guys working for 15/hr, and 1 guy at 20/hr they'd charge 20-30/hr per person for 4 people.

My stepdad runs a painting company and he does the same thing when he does work for just the cost of material+workers pay; so he's still making money.
For reference: he has his son working for 10/hr, 1 guy at 18/hr, 1 guy at 20/hr, and I think a few more at at 20/hr? And he charges $30/hr for labor/guy. So if he's doing it "just at cost" he's still making big profit.

At 1 point he wouldn't work if he wasn't making $1000/day himself, personally. Although around fall/winter he takes pretty much whatever he can; due to less people needing painting done.

Now, don't take that the wrong way. He runs the business good, there's no hidden charges; the price he gives you is the price you pay. He just happens to overcharge a little where he can. But, if people are willing to pay it...

@OP: asking him for the receipts of the material. And how much each worker makes/hour, how many hours was spent on the plywood, and then do the math to see if it all adds up.
 
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I have a couple of observations to make on this matter..

1) Labour rate has to be higher than what the guys are making. Typically, 2-3x their salary. That pays for the truck (including gas/insurance/maintenance), facilities, admin/sales staff and leaves the shop owner with a few bucks worth of profit.

2) I don't see this guy giving the OP any cash back but he acted like a ******. He obviously lied to the OP and that ain't cool. He'd get 0 repeat business and only negative references from me. I'd have no qualms with charging $200 for a part that I got for free as long as that's the market value (with reasonable markup on usual supplier rate). I wouldn't bamboozle the HO into paying $500 for a part that should sell for $200 with my markup.

3) If I were the roofer, I wouldn't have tried to sell him the "at cost" song and dance. Never discuss costs with an HO. This is what needs to be done and this is how much I charge for it.
 
What's the roofers' side of this story?
 
Paul1000RR said:
4 guys x 15hours x 20$ an hour =1200 bucks. add in the materials and 2K isn't that far off.

next time go to home depot, get all the necessary material, tools and get up there and do the work yourself. its easy to talk **** when you're not the one doing the work lol
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Why do you always flap your lips without reading or comprehending anything?

I was a roofer jc100, you are correct, 100$ a sheet installed is robbery, especially since he's doing the complete job.
 
nfq said:
What's the roofers' side of this story?
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Have to wait until Monday for a response to my email. I had one of my tenants measure the roof accurately include pitch and run etc and sent the square footage off to the contractor. There's a significant amount of flat roof on the property too and if the contractor just measured exterior walls he would have twice the area of the shingled roof. I'm hoping this is what he's done but seeing as another part of the contract (that we don't have a problem with) is for a portion of this flat roof then I don't see that they could have made a mistake like this. My guess is at they are trying it on as they had me over a barrel because the job had started and I needed to make a decision without knowing all facts.
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