Riding on hwy shoulder/emergency lanes

[hedo2002]

I am under the assumption that police, ambulance, firetruck drivers have special training for emergency driving. I assume that tow drivers have not been trained to any specific standard.

56 k over in a truck? He was trying to make money. Tow trucks aren't ambulances saving lives.

Police generally get VERY limited Emergency driver training, I know a friend of mine as a Firefighter was taken out by an "driver trainer" in the truck prior to going for her DZ licence, but there was no "specialized training". They get the authority to use shoulders etc merely from the HTA, not due to their driving ability. Having said that in "MOST" cases you will see them using full lighting and sirens as they use the shoulder, and they generally aren't going at break neck speeds either.

I did complete a one day EVOC, (Emergency Vehicle Operators Course), which focused primarily on high speed skid control etc. But that wouldn't prepare you for shooting down the shoulder of the 401 at 120 when traffic is standing still..lol. I watched this morning as 2 Toronto Fire trucks tried making their way to the collision involving two rigs at Bayview this morning, the portion of the 401 had no shoulder in the express due to construction. I was maybe 5 minutes slower passing the scene then them and I was just in a normal lane going with flow of traffic.

 

[micelli.i]

Police generally get VERY limited Emergency driver training, I know a friend of mine as a Firefighter was taken out by an "driver trainer" in the truck prior to going for her DZ licence, but there was no "specialized training". They get the authority to use shoulders etc merely from the HTA, not due to their driving ability. ....

I did complete a one day EVOC, (Emergency Vehicle Operators Course), which focused primarily on high speed skid control etc. But that wouldn't prepare you for shooting down the shoulder of the 401 at 120 when traffic is standing still..lol. ...

Interesting point. I was always under the impression that, at least police officers, get extensive special training how to drive in emergency situations (i.e. when sirens are on, slowing down at intersection and driving on red light, etc.). At least I would hope so for their safety and that of the general public, when they rush to a scene ... Who knew?

 

[hedo2002]

Interesting point. I was always under the impression that, at least police officers, get extensive special training how to drive in emergency situations (i.e. when sirens are on, slowing down at intersection and driving on red light, etc.). At least I would hope so for their safety and that of the general public, when they rush to a scene ... Who knew?

Well, technically there would be no training required for approaching an intersection with a red light, for a police officer. Even if they have their lights and siren activated under the HTA, they are still required, (as are EMS, and fire vehicles), required to come to a complete stop and only may proceed when they have assured that it is "safe to do so". If they blow through a red light and hit someone, they can face the same charges as you or I would. Now some police services, such as Toronto Police Service do offer "in house" driver training, but smaller forces don't generally have access to the same training. To the best of my knowledge there is no "provincial standard" assigned to driver training, (aside from what is given at Ontario Police College, OPC, in Alymer).

 

[cbcanada]

I got a ticket last summer for riding on the shoulder for 20 seconds.. I was stuck in 30 degree beat in the 401 Friday traffic. And I was literally starting to burn up. So I decided to shoulder off to exit which was about half km down.

Opp gave me a ticket and recommended I take it to court "maybe they will listen" I sent it for court date have not heard back.

No sure if I have a case at winning if and when court case comes but, I really could no longer sit on in the bike. So I had to use the shoulder.

 

[conundrum]

I got a ticket last summer for riding on the shoulder for 20 seconds.. I was stuck in 30 degree beat in the 401 Friday traffic. And I was literally starting to burn up. So I decided to shoulder off to exit which was about half km down.

Opp gave me a ticket and recommended I take it to court "maybe they will listen" I sent it for court date have not heard back.

No sure if I have a case at winning if and when court case comes but, I really could no longer sit on in the bike. So I had to use the shoulder.

Maybe it was answered back in the thread, but I wonder what would have happened if you shut down the bike and walked it off the 401 (assuming you were at the right shoulder). I know you also aren't supposed to walk on the shoulders of the 401, but I doubt a cop would ticket you for that if you ran out of gas in a car and walked along the side to the next ramp for a gas station.

 

[GreyGhost]

Maybe it was answered back in the thread, but I wonder what would have happened if you shut down the bike and walked it off the 401 (assuming you were at the right shoulder). I know you also aren't supposed to walk on the shoulders of the 401, but I doubt a cop would ticket you for that if you ran out of gas in a car and walked along the side to the next ramp for a gas station.

I highly doubt you'd get a ticket for pushing a bike, but most people use the shoulder as a way to go fast, pushing is slow.

 

[PrivatePilot]

No sure if I have a case at winning if and when court case comes but, I really could no longer sit on in the bike. So I had to use the shoulder.

I suspect the judge may suggest you could have pulled over to the shoulder, parked the bike, taken some gear off to cool down, and managed the situation that way.

Judges are not big on excuses when legit/legal alternatives exist.

Sorry, just stating the facts.

 

[griff2]

Sorry, just stating the facts.

That will get you nowhere here.

 

[hedo2002]

If you got the ticket last summer and you have yet to hear back then I suspect one of two things have happened. The ticket is somehow "lost" in the system, or a notice was sent out and for whatever reason you didn't receive it. If the notice was sent out and you didn't respond then the courts go ahead with the processing and you would have been convicted "in absentia" It normally doesn't take 9 months for them to schedule a first appearance. You may be sitting on a conviction that your "unaware of". If you can show that you truly didn't receive notice you can, (they don't make it easy), request the court to reopen the case and deal with it. Otherwise when you go to renew plates you will deal with it, in the form of paying the fine before you get your plates.

The courts take a dim view of the excuse, "well you guys didn't get back to me", it is expected that you would have followed up. The justice system is set up that they send stuff out it is up to you to ensure you receive it. Might be time to call the court.

You can try the "but your honor it was hot outside" explanation, but not sure how far it will fly. Does that mean if my car doesn't have AC and it is Friday afternoon, I too can use the shoulder of the road? I also expect the JP, or the crown, will ask, (if you go to trial), why you simply just didn't pull over, stop and remove some gear, until you could again proceed.

I got a ticket last summer for riding on the shoulder for 20 seconds.. I was stuck in 30 degree beat in the 401 Friday traffic. And I was literally starting to burn up. So I decided to shoulder off to exit which was about half km down.

Opp gave me a ticket and recommended I take it to court "maybe they will listen" I sent it for court date have not heard back.

No sure if I have a case at winning if and when court case comes but, I really could no longer sit on in the bike. So I had to use the shoulder.

 

[cbcanada]

If you got the ticket last summer and you have yet to hear back then I suspect one of two things have happened. The ticket is somehow "lost" in the system, or a notice was sent out and for whatever reason you didn't receive it. If the notice was sent out and you didn't respond then the courts go ahead with the processing and you would have been convicted "in absentia" It normally doesn't take 9 months for them to schedule a first appearance. You may be sitting on a conviction that your "unaware of". If you can show that you truly didn't receive notice you can, (they don't make it easy), request the court to reopen the case and deal with it. Otherwise when you go to renew plates you will deal with it, in the form of paying the fine before you get your plates.

The courts take a dim view of the excuse, "well you guys didn't get back to me", it is expected that you would have followed up. The justice system is set up that they send stuff out it is up to you to ensure you receive it. Might be time to call the court.

You can try the "but your honor it was hot outside" explanation, but not sure how far it will fly. Does that mean if my car doesn't have AC and it is Friday afternoon, I too can use the shoulder of the road? I also expect the JP, or the crown, will ask, (if you go to trial), why you simply just didn't pull over, stop and remove some gear, until you could again proceed.

Ok so who should I call to follow up?
I also don't want anyone to look into it incase it was "lost"

 

[Joe Bass]

Ok so who should I call to follow up?
I also don't want anyone to look into it incase it was "lost"

Driver's abstract?

Sent from my custom purple Joe Bass mobile device using Tapatalk

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Driver's abstract?

That would be a good idea. There might have been a verdict registered in absentia.

 

[cbcanada]

Lol you guys are ruining my Saturday night

 

[Joe Bass]

That would be a good idea. There might have been a verdict registered in absentia.

That's what I was thinking. And if not, he's not red flagging himself by exploring other avenues.

Sent from my custom purple Joe Bass mobile device using Tapatalk

 

[PrivatePilot]

That's what I was thinking. And if not, he's not red flagging himself by exploring other avenues.

If there's no verdict registered yet on his abstract I'd wait until about the 12 month point before inquiring - at that point there's a legitimate constitutional challenge (11.b, if anyone wants to Google it) that is safely viable & common as a method to get the charge tossed out anyways at that point. So, if it was "lost" and they suddenly find it after the inquiry and suggest the crown will still pursue it...IMHO a few phone calls to choice people will have it tossed out again at that point without the need to even bother petitioning the court for the stay.

 

[cbcanada]

If there's no verdict registered yet on his abstract I'd wait until about the 12 month point before inquiring - at that point there's a legitimate constitutional challenge (11.b, if anyone wants to Google it) that is safely viable & common as a method to get the charge tossed out anyways at that point. So, if it was "lost" and they suddenly find it after the inquiry and suggest the crown will still pursue it...IMHO a few phone calls to choice people will have it tossed out again at that point without the need to even bother petitioning the court for the stay.

Ok I will wait 3 more months and if need be get in touch with PrivatePilot to find out who do I make the choice phone call to

 

[hedo2002]

When the time comes, you can check with the court where the case was to be heard. Hopefully you still have your violation notice, (Ticket) then just call and ask what the status is. You will be talking to a court clerk. If they say you were tried and convicted In Absentia, then you would look on the ministry website for procedures and forms, to be filled to request the case be reopened. If they say they can't locate the violation or case then thank them and move on. Generally if they find say behind a filing cabinet 2 years from now they will just cancel it at that point.

 

[PLau]

Been seeing people riding the shoulder of the DVP almost daily and have a question for those that do:

Why ride on the right shoulder (4-5ft wide) and split the lanes of people coming from an on-ramp?
If you want to bypass traffic, why not ride the HOV bus lane with over double the amount of space, less debris, indication/signs that the lane closes ahead, and much less risk from getting merged into from people coming from on-ramps?

Both are illegal, but the latter being much less risky.

 

[J_F]

like hedo said, go to the provincial offenses court and see what happened
if you were convicted in absentia, you may have a shot at getting a re-opening and new trial date
my son did this a few months ago, conviction was reversed
then he attended a resolution meeting with Crown and got a reduction in charge and fine


I've done the shoulder ride thing a few times in stop and go traffic in extreme heat
just MHO, but if you're ripping down the shoulder, I'd expect no mercy from LE or other drivers

I put 4 ways on, stay in 2nd gear just above idle, and go just fast enough to get some air through the rad and me
keep an eye on your mirrors of course and get out of the way for emerg vehicles
and watch for truckers that get pissy and see you coming, and move over to block the shoulder
but if you behave like I described, I think most people get what you're doing, JP, maybe not so much

 

[JTR]

They fall under that section of the law. That's the only section they fall under - the rest of the time they are required and expected to follow the letter of the law so far as the HTA goes. In what will be a surprise to nobody here, most do whatever the hell they damn well please when they're rushing to a tow, accident or otherwise - first guy there (even if they need to drive like complete fools to achieve it) gets the soliciting ticket, typically.

Fixed that for you PP, Tow ops aren't allowed to approach collision scenes unless they've been specifically requested.