Return of Ford Nation

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fastar1 said:
If you wonder what Brown means when he says the PC nominations are "controversial" and need fixing, this is what he means:

Doug Ford accused of buying memberships to help preferred candidate win Tory nomination

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/doug-ford-accused-of-buying-memberships-to-help-preferred-candidate-win-tory-nomination

If you wonder why Ford thought this candidate was worth spending thousands of dollars to buy members for, and hundreds more to bus them in to vote, you might notice she has a certain resemblance to his wife, but younger.
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Read more my friend. While campaigns to signing up voters solely for the purpose of winning a nomination seems wrong, and is wrong by most rules, it a '15 over' in political campaigning. Every party is guilty, no party is interested in discussing the topic -- it's part of the political swamp.

As for the 'mess', Liberals have got a lot of mileage out of a short statement. Ford said Brown left the candidate nominations in a mess -- 11 ridings with no candidate vote scheduled and 12 ridings under contest for balloting irregularities. Here's the quote, a response to a question as to why candidates had to be appointed "Unfortunately, the mess that was handed to us from the previous leadership, was quite the disaster to be frank with you there."

 
What you describe as the swamp is actually part of every party's legitimate democratic process. What you didn't describe, Doug's buying members, is corrupt and contrary to all parties' rules.
 
It looks as though there was an investigation completed in 2016 for the above.

Now that Ford has become leader, someone wants the findings changed.
 
Well we've already had a judge state that behaviour that is specifically contrary to the wording of election law is essentially business as usual, so what standard does an internal investigation by a party need to meet?
 
fastar1 said:
What you describe as the swamp is actually part of every party's legitimate democratic process. What you didn't describe, Doug's buying members, is corrupt and contrary to all parties' rules.
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I'm calling bull on this one because I've seen it first hand.

I have 2 university age kids that got Liberal cards in the mail, (and to the best of my knowledge aren't Liberals because they tossed the cards). They were signed up at a university Kegger hosted by a politically active student -- they paid nothing for the membership or the beer.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Well we've already had a judge state that behaviour that is specifically contrary to the wording of election law is essentially business as usual, so what standard does an internal investigation by a party need to meet?
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That's what I meant by '15 over'. No party is going to press too hard on this one as every party can be fingered for this practice.
 
Mad Mike said:
I'm calling bull on this one because I've seen it first hand.

I have 2 university age kids that got Liberal cards in the mail, (and to the best of my knowledge aren't Liberals because they tossed the cards). They were signed up at a university Kegger hosted by a politically active student -- they paid nothing for the membership or the beer.
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Federal Liberal memberships are free, provincial Liberal memberships aren't.

If somebody paid for a provincial membership for them then that person corrupted democracy, which is what I said. What you said is signing people up solely for the purpose of winning a nomination is wrong. But it isn't, that's actually exactly what all candidates from all parties are encouraged to do. What's wrong is paying for those members.
 
I started receiving email from Provincial PC's in November 2013 indicating that I was a party member. I sure as hell never gave them any money. I wonder if I am one of the 407 thefts or if they got my information from somewhere else.? They know my name and email address. Over time they seemed to narrow down where I am even though I never interacted with them. It started with MPP from Kitchener, then party leaders, then Charity Mcgrath. I haven't received anything since Feb/18.
 
I don’t think any party that slings mud at the others is really going to make a difference. I believe the general population has been conditioned to accept politicians have no morals, will lie to achieve their own agenda and all are hypocrites. That is the nature of the game.

Nothing is going to change the minds of voters except maybe some really public scandal that just can’t be washed away.

Consider it the trump effect. But it’s not just a republican or conservative thing. It’s most politicians now.

Maybe have a credible pedo or child porn accusation and you might put the brakes on a candidate?

I couldn’t believe this province voted Wynne into power after the waste.

And the poles show the libs in big trouble but, I think that’s only because they are so close to the NDP in policies and pro unions, those that won’t vote liberal will shift to NDP.

Doug will put in a good showing but, it won’t go his way. They are trying hard to knock on the NDP which gets nods of agreement from established PC members but, they are still too light on their plan details to gain enough traction and win the race.

As for the booze in corner stores, I don’t understand why we can’t have the LCBO and booze sold in corner stores at the same time? It appears to happen in Quebec by having both the SAQ and corner stores. And I believe in NB as well?

So it’s not like they have the close all the LCBO locations once corner stores shelves are stocked with hooch.

Anyways, I haven’t voted liberal in years and I keep looking at how much I pay in taxes and keep scratching my head, this is the best we can do?







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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nakkers said:
As for the booze in corner stores, I don’t understand why we can’t have the LCBO and booze sold in corner stores at the same time? It appears to happen in Quebec by having both the SAQ and corner stores. And I believe in NB as well?

So it’s not like they have the close all the LCBO locations once corner stores shelves are stocked with hooch.
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BC has sketchy liquor stores that buy booze from the provincial booze stores at retail price, mark it up and sell it. I asked how that was a viable business model and basically the resellers stay open until midnight or 3 am or something so people heading home from the bar can stock up.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Well we've already had a judge state that behaviour that is specifically contrary to the wording of election law is essentially business as usual, so what standard does an internal investigation by a party need to meet?
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I'm not sure that it was an internal investigation. The people bringing it up now, haven't said a word about any investigation.

Besides, back then, Ford wasn't a big-shot within the party, so there'd be no political reason to be lenient with him, and it would be a good way to distance themselves from Rob.

I'm sure if that was a stumbling block for someone, they could do a little bit of research and find out what exactly went on, and why it's being brought up now.

As for the "mess"; it wasn't actually stated that it was Patrick Brown's, there was an interim leader, who didn't seem to do much, except get rid of people closely associated with Brown.
 
Baggsy said:
I'm not sure that it was an internal investigation. The people bringing it up now, haven't said a word about any investigation.

Besides, back then, Ford wasn't a big-shot within the party, so there'd be no political reason to be lenient with him, and it would be a good way to distance themselves from Rob.

I'm sure if that was a stumbling block for someone, they could do a little bit of research and find out what exactly went on, and why it's being brought up now.

As for the "mess"; it wasn't actually stated that it was Patrick Brown's, there was an interim leader, who didn't seem to do much, except get rid of people closely associated with Brown.
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Ford said it. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
 
I didn't think we could do worse than the Liberals. The potential of an NDP government when they don't even understand the difference between a revenue and expense is truly frightening.

EDIT:
The liberals are projected to win 1 seat? Awesome. Suck it wynnebag.
 
I guess people never learn from Hillary, Conservatives didn't start voting until they got off work...
 
GreyGhost said:
I didn't think we could do worse than the Liberals. The potential of an NDP majority when they don't even understand the difference between a revenue and expense is truly frightening.

EDIT:
The liberals are projected to win 1 seat? Awesome. Suck it wynnebag.
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Look at Alberta & Bob Rae. Those who don't know their history is doomed to repeat it.
 
RockerGuy said:
Look at Alberta & Bob Rae. Those who don't know their history is doomed to repeat it.
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History in politics has a very short half life. I have learned over the years that the electorate as a whole is quite gullible and hopeful... but neither wise or understanding of how government works.

Politicians know this, that's why they will say or do anything in a campaign to get elected. Favorites are "over promise, under deliver", and "torpedo your opponent".

It's unfortunate that as Canadians we vote for a leader and not for the party and principles of the party that she/he leads AND further unfortunate that in some cases the leader is the party, meaning they redefine the party principles at their pleasure.

I think Wynne got extremely lucky last election, she won when Hudak delivered the entire civil service to her. She was the Liberal's second chance, she failed miserably and as of now is considered written off.

It's down to a fight for the center left now. With less than 2 weeks to go, it's going to be whomever can capture the middle ground. If this plays out like most elections, Wynne will send of a fireworks show of empty promises and light up a stash of character assassinating Scuds she's collected for 10 years, Ford will continue to assault the Liberal record and fend off the Scuds, Horvath will seek high ground to watch the Liberals and PC club each other -- hoping they both succumb in their deathmatch leaving her standing (Rae & Notley plan).
 
RockerGuy said:
Look at Alberta & Bob Rae. Those who don't know their history is doomed to repeat it.
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Sort of like the PCs and their recent history of selecting detestable, unappealing people to lead them into elections?
 
RockerGuy said:
Look at Alberta & Bob Rae. Those who don't know their history is doomed to repeat it.
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Notley is a far more capable politician than comrade Rae
the pissing match with BC has gained her some credibility
but it needs to turn into a pipeline deal quickly

word is Trudeau is pushing hard for her re-election
he needs to stop posing and get a pipeline agreement pushed through

and of course higher oil prices are everything in Alberta
they are considerably higher than when she took office

don't count her out yet...the party isn't very popular
but they do like their spunky little cougar, daughter of Alberta
 
JavaFan said:
Notley is a far more capable politician than comrade Rae
the pissing match with BC has gained her some credibility
but it needs to turn into a pipeline deal quickly

word is Trudeau is pushing hard for her re-election
he needs to stop posing and get a pipeline agreement pushed through

and of course higher oil prices are everything in Alberta
they are considerably higher than when she took office

don't count her out yet...the party isn't very popular
but they do like their spunky little cougar, daughter of Alberta
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Albertans think of notley as we think of Wynne. I don't think she will get reelected

I hope liberals don't dance around and get this pipeline built.
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