REDNECK racing at Grand Bend.

invictus43 said:
Well that's not too bad..Probably be a good idea to have a wall or catch fence between the two at some point.
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Absolutely NOT. There must NOT be a wall or any other physical barrier separating the landing strip from the racetrack straightaway.

A wall in this location would be there in a high speed impact zone to hit 100% of the time and it doesn't move away in response to a command from an air traffic controller, and it can't arrange for its "disappearance" depending on track conditions. An airplane can, except maybe if it's making an emergency landing, but then highway 81 (just on the other side of a field from the airstrip) is in just as much danger.

Dunno if folks noticed, but it was apparent that the aircraft that made a landing during the endurance race made some zigs and zags so as to time its touchdown on the landing strip during a gap in the traffic on the track. A pilot with eyes and a brain (and a radio connected to air traffic control) can do that. A wall can't.

It's fine the way it is. If Grand Bend Motorplex decides to morph itself into Grand Bend International Airport then maybe it's an issue. But for two or three light planes a day, it's a non-issue. Note that a vote was taken in Sunday's rider's meeting if we were okay with aircraft landing and taking off without interrupting the racing. The vote was that we are okay with it, and presumably that also means the pilots are okay with it.

Question for those that know; do the marshals and race control have communication with air traffic control on this? If an aircraft calls for an emergency landing then it's probably best for race control to call for a red flag.
 
The truck is there as thats where I stand starting the race in order for the racers to see the start board and flag I cannot stant at the same level. The guys in the back cannot see. If not a truck then a platform.....better? It really isnt a concern the ONLY worry I have is a couple bikes hitting together and sideswiping it but at the start the speeds are slow. Like I said the actual people doing the racing had no issue with it nor the trailers for that matter just the spectators.
We have to qualify and do all kinds of hoop jumping to get liability insurance where they back check my experience and qualifications to make decisions just like this one, not to say that I dont make a wrong call once in a while but I have a pretty good grip on racing on both sides of the windshield. I am pretty sure that the folks that have millions of dollars on the line in possible payouts do their background and trust our judgement on stuff like this.
That said I am all ears when it comes to improving things and generally dont get involved in online diick measuring contests but when someone who doesnt race nor has even ridden the track makes statements like this about one of my events I am getting my back up. I am not above criticism however blanket statements like this are just misleading and frankly WRONG.
 
Dont disreguard ones opinion just because he or she hasnt joined your series yet.
I may be a customer next year.
This thread isnt a Ken or SOAR bashing thread. PLEASE take this critisizm to the owners and try and make this place as safe as possible.
Im happy everyone had an awesome time and there was no incidents, because thats the last thing the trackday community needs this year.
I guess im old cause im starting to notice "worst case senarios", not what should happen when everything goes as planned.
Dont "expect" a 400 lb motorcycle(s) doing 100-140-190kmh to go where you think it should go when s**t goes wrong. There is no rules or impact zones for a pair of bikes barrelrolling down a racetrack.
IMO Everything ( trailers,trucks, spectators,yada yada) should be moved as far away from both edges of the track as possible. Theres no walls or armco there so this should be a common sense issue.
I havent commented on the layout, the track or pavement conditions or anything but what ive seen with my own 2 eyes.

Im looking forward to riding the track with the big bad Racer5 boys soon , hopfully some of these concerns can be improved upon for everyones saftey.
(im not replying to this thread again, just take it and go with it )
 
Yamaha_Gurl said:
Edit: You **** disturber, you aren't racing this year! Damn straight! I see it all, you guys just see the corner infront of you! ;)
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Hey I raced at round 3, got me a 10th! :D
 
I rode there on the 1st and again on the 11th and love the track, the owners have listened to every concern brought up so far, and are looking for ways to continually improve the track. I had a few concerns when i first got there, but they were quickly gone after actually riding the track.
I dont see any reason why anybody would not enjoy riding on the track.
 
If the current state of the track at GB is enough to deter someone from going at all, then there are no tracks in Canada that would satisfy them.

invictus43 said:
To be fair, the walls and armco generally run parallel to the track..a truck is an immovable object.
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Joey McRae's broken back and Rahul Dua's broken leg might take exception to your comment.
 
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invictus43 said:
To be fair, the walls and armco generally run parallel to the track..a truck is an immovable object.
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..........actually, if ya got the keys I'll move it for ya .............;-) as to Kens comments about not being there, never turning a lap there and bitching on it like the cheated on spouse.......... Agree, ride it first or maybe at least go there and check it out (I have done neither, but I am hearing good things). BG

PS: way to much "SOAR and/or RACE" bashing going on, these are two great series (must admit I'm hearing sad things about RACE lately..... :-( ) I have really enjoyed my time at SOAR over the last couple of years, more of an "old school" club racing type "feel" to the place ..... RACE/Shannonville has a great motorcycle racing history and it sadden's me to see people believeing you MUST take sides, in a perfect world I would like to see both series survive and get stronger (and work together) its what the sport needs ....... BAD. Ben
 
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I enjoyed the layout immensely. And track quality is good, with only 1 bad bump that made me pucker at all. (Love to see that fixed much better than the quick fix from Fri night)....I also like that there are no walls to slide burning bikes into,LOL..... Spectators would get a better view if any and all trailers were moved from inside of the track, but as a racer I didn't even look at them, let alone get distracted by them.

I already have idea in my mind of what the track could do to bolster non-racer attendance. How about a bridge over top of the starting line, leading to a a set of bleachers on the infield where spectators could get a better view of the entire track surrounding them? Also Lindsay could have a tower out there from which to see all the action to announce to the fans. Throw a few Port-a-Johns out there, and the bridge could then be used by officials to flag the race as well....ta da, the truck (that didn't bother me at all, but might bother some) could be parked elsewhere.
I also mentioned this on FB......Joe Public, non-GTAMer and non-sportbiker, has no idea what SOAR is. How do we get these people to come watch? DOesn't the track facility want to make $ from spectators? The series could and would grow when outsiders came and saw what was going on...invariably, some of them would want to get involved. As I pulled up to the track in my truck, I read the big sign at the highway..It said " SOAR, Fri + Sat" That's it. The dates were actually Sat and Sun, and with the thousands of tourists headed to Grand Bend every weekend, who have no idea what SOAR on a sign even means, wouldn't a sign saying " Come watch live Superbike Racing- Sat + Sun" be a better way to lead them in?

As a sidenote: I think REDNECK RACING is an awesome name for next yr's endurance team! Thx!
 
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Me too Ben!
I will not be the one to stand in the way. If you have an in on the other side you know what to say.
 
omnivore said:
I enjoyed the layout immensely. And track quality is good, with only 1 bad bump that made me pucker at all. (Love to see that fixed much better than the quick fix from Fri night)....I also like that there are no walls to slide burning bikes into,LOL..... Spectators would get a better view if any and all trailers were moved from inside of the track, but as a racer I didn't even look at them, let alone get distracted by them.

I already have idea in my mind of what the track could do to bolster non-racer attendance. How about a bridge over top of the starting line, leading to a a set of bleachers on the infield where spectators could get a better view of the entire track surrounding them? Also Lindsay could have a tower out there from which to see all the action to announce to the fans. Throw a few Port-a-Johns out there, and the bridge could then be used by officials to flag the race as well....ta da, the truck (that didn't bother me at all, but might bother some) could be parked elsewhere.
I also mentioned this on FB......Joe Public, non-GTAMer and non-sportbiker, has no idea what SOAR is. How do we get these people to come watch? DOesn't the track facility want to make $ from spectators? The series could and would grow when outsiders came and saw what was going on...invariably, some of them would want to get involved. As I pulled up to the track in my truck, I read the big sign at the highway..It said " SOAR, Fri + Sat" That's it. The dates were actually Sat and Sun, and with the thousands of tourists headed to Grand Bend every weekend, who have no idea what SOAR on a sign even means, wouldn't a sign saying " Come watch live Superbike Racing- Sat + Sun" be a better way to lead them in?

As a sidenote: I think REDNECK RACING is an awesome name for next yr's endurance team! Thx!
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Good points Scott. We will allow anyone on the MX track on the infield but we have to do it between races. The owners are not interested in big PR this year. They want to iron out the bugs and make it fan friendly first (I agree this is a smart plan). They really are pro bike racing and are willing to do whats needed. I dont have enough kind words for them. There are some great things planned and all I can ask is to keep in mind we are three weeks in. So far everything we were promised has happened and more. They are already on top of that bump. It was done on the spot just to get us by (I wasnt even expecting that) this will be properly fixed.
Bottom line is
#1 The track is safe
#2 The owners are on side and WANT us there
#3 The people that have actually ridden the track like it
I am looking forward to more SOAR/Grand Bend partnerships. We have already been talking about some bigger more exciting events with the management at GBM and feel very confident in our relationship with a great facility and management team.
Back to the original post it was both unfair and inaccurate and thats what I have a huge problem with. Especially that it was started by a non-racer who has'nt ridden the track. I am not discounting different opinions or views but this was just plain wrong. All I can ask is people need to ride it themselves or at least talk to someone who has to get an accurate feeling. There are quite a few people who have already commented that have actually ridden/raced it and they dont seem to share the OP feelings.
 
Yamaha_Gurl said:
Does NO one remember the bike going over the berm (dirt wall) in corner 1, at the first year of SOAR? Bet no one was expecting that to happen!

All I am saying, it that things CAN go very wrong. You can't say with 100% certaintly that no one will hit the truck. Can you?
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It is equally impossible to say with 100% certainty that an asteroid won't strike the earth tomorrow, etc.

The berm outside turn 1 at Cayuga is on the outside of a rather high speed corner with a braking zone leading into it. The truck used for start/finish is on the inside of a straightaway, on the opposite side of the trajectory that one would expect an errant bike to end up at, if something went wrong in the corner prior. It's certainly more foreseeable for a crashed or brake-failure bike to go towards the outside of a corner, rather than the inside.

Keep in mind that at Shannonville, over the years, there has been a case of a bike ejecting its rider and then carrying on, riderless, crossing another part of the track and at least one case of such a bike being hit by another bike. Unfortunately I've forgotten which corner this happened at, but it's foreseeable for long track 2 towards Fabi 5/6, for long/Nelson track 4 towards corner 1, for long track 9 towards the back straight, and probably others. I personally have seen a car on the Nelson track lose a wheel going into corner 2, and said wheel crossed the straight between 5 and 6 on Fabi while there was a bike race happening on Fabi ... and I wrote management about the inadvisability of having a car event and a bike event happening simultaneously on the two parts of the track. (I got a response back, which basically amounted to "we need the money".)

Risk in motor racing can not be completely eliminated. Having actually BEEN to Grand Bend and raced there, my main concerns involve only fixing those two pavement transitions, and separation of the track from errant spectators or spectator vehicles. The layout is fine. The side-by-side airstrip and back straightaway is fine as long as it's properly managed and the people involved (both us and on the aircraft side) have working brains. The absence of walls or armco within foreseeable impact zones is something no other track in Canada can claim. This track in its present form needs NO hay bales and NO air fence.
 
If you like Grand Bend so much Brian, why don't you marry it? :p
 
Hah! You liked it, too!

I don't think my comments are much different from those of anyone else who was there ...
 
Ben G said:
RACE/Shannonville has a great motorcycle racing history and it sadden's me to see people believeing you MUST take sides, in a perfect world I would like to see both series survive and get stronger (and work together) its what the sport needs ....... BAD. Ben
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Agree totally ... but this past weekend forced a decision to be made between RACE, SOAR, and VRRA all on the same weekend. If you go by number of entries and number of participants, I betcha the VRRA won!
 
As a newb racer, who has just done Racer5, I can tell you that between Grand Bend and Cayuga, I liked GBM more. It was an awesome track that really flowed well. The "infield" after the start/finish line was a dream to ride through.

I agree that there were some distractions, but nothing that was bothersome. All in all, I was super impressed with this track, and I loved riding it. And the support we got was out of this world. The track staff actually brushed the track for us after it rained!
 
Brian P said:
It's fine the way it is. If Grand Bend Motorplex decides to morph itself into Grand Bend International Airport then maybe it's an issue. But for two or three light planes a day, it's a non-issue. Note that a vote was taken in Sunday's rider's meeting if we were okay with aircraft landing and taking off without interrupting the racing. The vote was that we are okay with it, and presumably that also means the pilots are okay with it.

Question for those that know; do the marshals and race control have communication with air traffic control on this? If an aircraft calls for an emergency landing then it's probably best for race control to call for a red flag.
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For Saturday's qualifiers the GB track photographer was down on turn 4 where the plane touches down when coming in and where he starts his build up to take-off from. The reason: It's a good corner for shots...and the fact that apparently several riders wanted their photos taken with the plane beside them. So I guess that answers the question 'were the riders okay with it?'. LOL!

As for communication: A GB employee marshaling at that turn had a separate radio for specifically communicating with the pilot. There were no communication issues from what I witnessed, just in their trying to time up our breaks (however we could get them in without causing too much delay) with their being ready to take off as much as possible and they did their take-offs and landings when the track was cold whenever they could. It's not like it was happening randomly people!

The funniest sight was the rider (Thompson?) that got to race the plane down the back straight from turn 4 to 5. LOL! Wish I'd caught that one on my camera :laughing8:
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Rode/raced the track for the first time past weekend.

As others have said, the transition that have some nasty bumps that can be filled/smoothed out would make the track safer/faster and more fun. Some painted lines or turtles would be nice at the turn going onto the straight and along the straight, it's a bit difficult to judge when that pavement ends on corner exit, few guys went off into the old pavement even just in my races in front of me. However, I found this track very enjoyable to ride, the infield is very tight but there is also a nice straight, still a riders track like Cayuga but faster and more fun. The most important thing is the owners are listening to the racers or race organizers (Ken/SOAR) to improve the track. It is very impressive for them to have got the track to this state in the time frame they had.

As for any truck or RV's being a problem I found them to be zero issue, to be honest it never even crossed my mind how they would be dangerous when I was riding. They are mainly in the infield, and the infield is a very slow section. Planes, not an issue, as others mentioned, marshall's have comms between the pilots. Again, Ken addressed the riders about these issues during Riders meeting and asked us riders what we thought.
When a crash happens sometimes strange things can happen, like bikes ghost riding or doing funny flips, GBM has no walls so people maybe concerned about bikes going into the paddock or RV's etc. But when strange things happen at any track it's an issue. Again, all the fast corner stuff is not near trucks/rvs or people at GBM in this particular layout we rode.

It's already a massively positive thing that the owners of GBM are being proactive as much as they can rather than wait for bad things to happen and then fix it. In a perfect world the entire track would have air fence around it and more air fence just in case, with grand stands and big screens to protect the viewers, and RV parking lots (BRNO like Ken said) but we have to be realistic. We are club racing/track riding, this is a club level track, this is track riding in Canada, this track just got built, there is lots of time to improve it, these are risks we take.

I'd like to thank GBM staff/owners Ken and SOAR for putting on a great past weekend. No injuries (and yes we had crashes), great racing, and great fun.

Here's an additional video of the track, front mounted cam on my bike of the Novice Open Qualifier in HD for those who want to get a feel of what it's like out there.

[video=youtube;Uv3YhzuEx2A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv3YhzuEx2A[/video]
 
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